22-09-2005 12:43									#1
	The YIN Fund: Join the FUN! Put an end to popups!

The Target! Dimensions: 7.50 inches x 5.50 inches x 1.25 inches

quote: originally posted by Yin on 10/07/05 If ICS isn't still the dominant strategy in Civ 4, then I'll eat (at least part) of the cardboard box! And if combat isn't as dull as ever, I'll eat more parts!

Apolyton proudly announces The Yin Fund!

Our goal:

To provide Yin with a copy of Civ4 so that he feels obligated to keep his promise!

The results of our effort:

2) Depending on the outcome we'll hopefully have photographic evidence (a live video feed possiblity is being explored ) of Yin being a real man that keeps his word!

Share the fun!:

You can be part of this project! Go to our Apolyton PLUS section http://apolyton.net/plus and get a $2 (or bigger) subscription for you or a friend, adding "YIN" (or any message you want to sent to Yin ) in the "Your note to the Apolyton team" message box that you will see during the Paypal paying process.

We will put all proceeds from PLUS with the special "Yin" message towards covering the cost ($74.91 via Chips&Bits). You will of course have your PLUS subscription as an added value to being part of this fun project If the fund raising target isnt met by October 10 we'll just cover the remaing amount anyway.

A list of contributors and their messages of support will be posted here.


Dont wait more, help our cause!
http://apolyton.net/plus

Last edited by MarkG on 22-09-2005 at 14:09

	22-09-2005 13:43									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'll definitly contribute to this.
I think Firaxis should contribute as well, to them it's a huge way to market their game!

"Even our worst critic had to admit this game is da bomb and had to eat the gamebox!" or something like that

can't wait

	22-09-2005 14:19									#3
	Put an end to popups!

As much fun as that would be, I'd much rather spend my money on sending the game to Vel or hexagonian or some other Apolyton vet I actually respect, and get a review from them. Yin can pay for his own copy, what did he ever do to get one for free, besides whinging and trolling?

	22-09-2005 14:23									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I second that

	22-09-2005 14:28									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Locotus does have a point.
Why wouldn't yin buy his own box? He'll most obviously do that anyway.

And I think that yin is a man who'll stick to his word and I'm sure he'll film his box eating.

	22-09-2005 15:52									#6
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yeah yin, what have ever you done for the civ community?
short memories

anyway, we can expand the fund idea(vel sounds good) if there are more contributions

	22-09-2005 15:54									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MarkG yeah yin, what have ever you done for the civ community? short memories

That was in a previous millenium, ones credit only extends for so long -- especially considering what he's done since then...

	22-09-2005 16:11									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I dunno, it may be kind of fun watching him eat the box

We might even get a barf shot

	22-09-2005 16:18									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

LOL!

First, if it matters, I won't be buying Civ4 upon release. If it isn't clear what the typical pattern is in the industry (with few exceptions) about releasing half baked games and then charging you again for finished code with an expansion pack, then what can I say?

As for what I have done since Civ3, the answer is obvious: I've stopped blindly believing in a game simply because it has Sid's name on it. The guy has put Firaxis on auto-pilot and is cashing in on his fame. O.K. Fair enough. The guy probably deserves it. But smart gamers should also be critical of what happened with Civ 3...and I continue to be critical. Yes, this annoys some people (of course the fanboys but also the Peter Pan-type player who just wants to believe in the magic), but it's also an important role in the community, like it or not.

So, back to this topic:

For anybody willing to join in on this project, even if you detest my criticisms, one thing is for sure: I will keep my promises. And I'd like to expand on the deal here, Markos:

A] If I find that game relies on city sleaze and has dull combat as always, I will still do the review but will then ship back the game to you, at my expense. Then the next person on your list can have the copy.

B] If the game is really oustanding, in addition to the review, I will eat portions of the box -- on video if we can work that out.

Finally, and this might sound strange coming from me, this entire process of anticipating, criticising/hyping a game like this is all part of the fun. I realize that on the surface I seem to take things too seriously, but the truth is that computer games are a diversion -- nothing more. If Civ 4 tanks, there will be more great games than any of us can hope to play with anyway. So lighten up, people!

By the way, truth be told, a review from Vel would almost certainly offer far more intricate analysis of inner game workings than what I would produce. Certainly I'd do my Review Machine thing as before, and I'd give the straight deal for people sitting on the fence, but I have to say that if the goal here is a nearly Ph.D.-like review of a game and NOT watching perhaps Civ4's most notable critic eat a game box, well, then, the game should go to Vel!

Last edited by yin26 on 22-09-2005 at 16:26

	22-09-2005 16:39									#10
	Suffering from ads?

I like your expanded deal. If not to someone else for a review, we could put the box in a contest. "win a copy of civ4 signed by yin!"

but since you're going to like the game we'd better raise more funds to have another copy

	22-09-2005 16:46									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

But what if the entire worlds thinks that civ4 handles ICS very well but yin still says that it doesn't...........
I think he should still eat the box in that case

We can't depend too much on his own review on this matter

	22-09-2005 16:59									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

Hmmm, that's an interesting point. Perhaps a poll on these issues would be the fair thing to do?

	22-09-2005 16:59									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by yin26 ... *snip* .... As for what I have done since Civ3, the answer is obvious: I've stopped blindly believing in a game simply because it has Sid's name on it. The guy has put Firaxis on auto-pilot and is cashing in on his fame. O.K. Fair enough. The guy probably deserves it. But smart gamers should also be critical of what happened with Civ 3...and I continue to be critical. Yes, this annoys some people (of course the fanboys but also the Peter Pan-type player who just wants to believe in the magic), but it's also an important role in the community, like it or not. .... *snip*....

What have you done? NOTHING! You've *****ed, moaned and complained, but I haven't seen a half decent idea to try and fix the issues you point out.

Your arguements thus lack meaning because of this lack of thought. Sure, you were a hit before Civ3, but since then I've seen nothing but chest-beating and 13-year old "mummy" cries.

Also, your attempts to put down a game that isn't even released yet are clear examples of self-advertisment.

Sorry dude, but to a lot of people you're just an old burnt-out windbag.

Dale

	22-09-2005 17:02									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Youre going to end up eating the box whatever reasons you give for letting another do the review it seems

	22-09-2005 17:03									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I've pitched a states-based idea that many people have found quite interesting, in fact. And what have you done besides become my groupie?

	22-09-2005 17:08									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: I've pitched a states-based idea that many people have found quite interesting, in fact. And what have you done besides become my groupie?

Hmmm..... let's see:

1. Forgot about Civ3 and it's short-fallings.
2. Modded CTP2 so it was playable and fixed its bugs.
3. Created expanded mods to provide completely different experiences.
4. Helped Vel on Candle'Bre.
5. Created a design for a Civ-style game (which is on hold due to a project I'm working on right now).
6. Participated in the Civ4 list.
7. Even helped out Mark and his gang in Alt-civs too there for a while.
8. Other things you have no idea about.

Should I go on?

Oh, so you've done one thing in all these years? Hmmm...... I think we all know who's worked harder for the genre.

Dale

	22-09-2005 17:13									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

LOL! Ahhh, feelings hurt?

Poor little Dale is working so hard slaving away for the genre and it's Yinny who is getting offered a free copy of the game? Tell you what, I'll send you an autographed copy of some underpants I just soiled laughing at your hilarious public confession.

NOTE: I just noticed Dale even has something about me in his signature! Christ. Listen, we'll never have a relationship, and --no-- I won't come visit your house to teach you how to play Civ, either.

NOTE 2: Also from Dale's signature:

quote: Games Programmer for hire......

Maybe you should actually spend your time trying to get that job rather than crying about broken dreams on Apolyton? Just a thought.

	22-09-2005 17:17									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by yin26 I've stopped blindly believing in a game simply because it has Sid's name on it.

Yup, instead you're blindly disbelieving in a game just because it has Sid's name on it. I was (and still am) every bit as critical of Civ3 as you were, if not more so, I just didn't bash people over the head with that over and over and over and over... I've been very sceptical of Civ4 since the start as well, but frankly there's not much to be sceptical about. Contrary to Civ3, we've so far by and large only heard good things about Civ4. The only real concern one could have right now is what the pushed up release date will do to the overall polish, but they've been polishing this game for 2 months already and the date is only pushed up a week or two, so personally I'm fairly confident there.

People like CyberShy who blindly have faith that Civ4 will kick ass no matter what are not to be taken seriously, but neither are people like you who blindly believe the game will suck. IMO neither type of person provides any kind of useful role to the community, the constant repetition of the same old arguments over and over again (from both sides) is just cluttering the forums.

IMO the most useful contributions at this point are coming from people posting links to new articles and previews and stuff, people like Geomodder, Platypus Rex and hordes of Settlers. They provide the facts and let others form their own opions. If anyone in this forum deserves a reward (which is what I would regard a free copy of Civ4), it's people like them



But if there's one thing I agree with, it's that this all shouldn't be taken too seriously, in the end it's just a game...

	22-09-2005 17:19									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hey, I never said the game would suck. I just said it would be Civ 2.7

	22-09-2005 17:26									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yin:
How little you know.

Oh, and what broken dreams have I spoken about?

	22-09-2005 17:26									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I rarely agree with Locutus, but this was well written.

	22-09-2005 17:35									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I agree with Locutus as well, which is why if anybody cares to, you'll see I've limited my critical postings to a few threads over the past few years. And the thrust of my argument, again, has never been: "Civ4 sucks because Sid made it." No, it's been, based on what we've been told, I think (yes, opinion) that we have Civ 2.7 on our hands. Sure I'm disappointed, but many gamers said "You know what, I like the familiarity of it. It feels like home." Great! Does nothing for me, of course, and I don't mind starting a thread or two about it.

In the end, though, it's a forum. If you don't like the give and take, the extremes from one side or the other, start a $1.99/min. chat line and call yourself.

	22-09-2005 17:43									#23
	Got spare money?

quote: Locotus: People like CyberShy who blindly have faith that Civ4 will kick ass no matter what are not to be taken seriously

Thanks for that
No sure what I did to suddenly get such a lable though
I'm cheering happily over any good news I hear. That's something else then blindly believing in the truth of civ!

I refuse it to be called the opposite of yin

Uh, unless that gives me a free box of civ as well of course

	22-09-2005 20:54									#24
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 I agree with Locutus as well, which is why if anybody cares to, you'll see I've limited my critical postings to a few threads over the past few years. And the thrust of my argument, again, has never been: "Civ4 sucks because Sid made it." No, it's been, based on what we've been told, I think (yes, opinion) that we have Civ 2.7 on our hands. Sure I'm disappointed, but many gamers said "You know what, I like the familiarity of it. It feels like home." Great! Does nothing for me, of course, and I don't mind starting a thread or two about it. In the end, though, it's a forum. If you don't like the give and take, the extremes from one side or the other, start a $1.99/min. chat line and call yourself.

I find your opinion that this will just be Civ 2.7 ironic at the very least, as the majority complaint from a vocal minority of the MP community is that CIV is NOT just a bug free updated version of there beloved C3C, intact with all of there time proven strategies :-/ It seems that not matter what Firaxis does there will be people that complain :-?

CS

	22-09-2005 21:07									#25
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy I refuse it to be called the opposite of yin Uh, unless that gives me a free box of civ as well of course

Be careful: you could suddendly discover you have to eat the CD / DVD in change, if the game is not as advertised.

Apolyton forum: there are wild lions out there! Watch your shoulder! Or at least take a warrior for escort

	22-09-2005 21:13									#26
	Get a bigger avatar today!

For lack of a better term, Yin26 is merely the 'yin' of the yin-yang world of computer game reviews, and as such, is needed to achieve TRUE balance and harmony.

Looking forward to ALL of the reviews, as I will have at least a month before I even think about getting the game...

	22-09-2005 21:18									#27
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CanuckSoldier, the CS abbreviation already belongs to me

	22-09-2005 21:49									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: I find your opinion that this will just be Civ 2.7 ironic at the very least, as the majority complaint from a vocal minority of the MP community is that CIV is NOT just a bug free updated version of there beloved C3C, intact with all of there time proven strategies :-/ It seems that not matter what Firaxis does there will be people that complain :-?

I do agree that people will complain no matter what. I don't think, though, that making people have to play at least a *little* differently makes this a full version step. O.K. Maybe Civ 2.8.

quote: Yin26 is merely the 'yin' of the yin-yang world of computer game reviews, and as such, is needed to achieve TRUE balance and harmony.

FINALLY! Truth and understanding!

Certainly when I read reviews, I start with the 4 or 5 out of 10 stars. Most of the time the complaints are totally useless ("It broke my monitor!"), but sometimes there are tell-tale signs that I don't even need to bother reading the positive ratings ("On hard level, all I did was build city after city after city with two spearman in each town --no other military-- and within a few hours every other civ started gifting me gold not to attack them.").

The same for the 9 or 10 out of 10 star reviews. A lot of that is useless, too ("I haven't even opened the box yet but can tell you this is best game ever!"), though sometimes revealing in a positive sense ("I used to beat Deity routinely. I just lost --badly-- on Monarch...and I've been playing non-stop for a week.").

Then, I suppose, law of averages dictates that more often than not it will be the 7 - 8 star ratings that show the best balance: "I can beat Monarch without much trouble, but the process is an egaging one, and there are usually moments of real decision making." So when I predict that we will have Civ 2.7, I imagine it would deserve a 7 or maybe (by the expansion) an 8 or even 9.

And if this still sounds too critical to people, suck it up!

	22-09-2005 22:25									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yin, I'll ask you again, if civ IV only qualifies for civ 2.8, what games do qualify for a 'round' sequel number?
And why does civ2 qualify to be civ2 instead of civ 1.5?
What are the huge difference between civ1 and civ2 that aren't available in civ3 or civ4?

Is doom3 not really doom1.3 (doom with improved graphics)
Is the sims2 not reqally the sims1.2 (more of the same with better graphics)

explain how your sequel system works

	22-09-2005 23:20									#30
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy CanuckSoldier, the CS abbreviation already belongs to me

Well I guess you are just going to have to learn to share :-P This maybe heresy here but the Civ community is more that just 'poly :-P

Cheers CS