17-02-2001 02:46									#1
	Any Diplogames starting soon, I'm a beginner! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

at Diplo Games, that is... is there any possibility for me to get used to playing in such? I'm really interested in them, if my playing skills might be slightly below those of others here

Maybe some of you are willing to start a new one, just to introduce a DiploNewbie like me to it?

Damn, I'll have to dig out the thread that was posted ages ago, where all those useful links were collected... what a DipoGame is, things about etiquette, etc... but I do like the idea of it

	17-02-2001 04:07									#2
	Remove this text

Well as far as actual Civ skills go, I doubt you lack the nessecary fundamentals. The fact is diplogames dont go like Duels because strategies you would use in a duel cease to be viable.

Let me try to be more clear since that paragraph was confusing.

When one enters a diplogame, he can expect some general things. A historical map of some kind and a fairly full game for one (5 to 7, fluctuating depending on who shows up when, though most maintain around 7 through the use of various subs). World map is, obviously, the most popular.

lets stroll over to the world map for a second and look at it. Take example of the latest Diplogame. It has 7 countries, Italy, Israel, Mali (west africa), Zulu (south Africa), China, Mongol (above India, inbetween Europe and China), and India. Now picture that upon the world map. Youll notice a few things right off.

First and foremost, there is no one in the Americas. Unfourtantly we all know the America's exist, so its not totally realistic, but nonetheless everyone does know their there and if one power were to dominate, it would easily tip the balance of power to far. Therefore we all have to consider, do we gamble by infringing on peoples homelands at the risk of ceding our share of the New World to them? Do the Zulus fight Mali for the Nile Valley at the risk of Mali getting to South America before them and claiming the majority of it?

This brings up a second point, you cant ignore the world stage. Because we all bear certain rules of etiqutte, you have to follow them. Were Mali to take the Israeli city on the Nile Delta because he "doesnt like it", he would quickly find himself encircled by enemies of Israel, Italy, and the Zulu. If your an unabashed agressor, you will find life without friends to be very lonely.

By the same token, and astute politician will bargain, perhaps Italy would like Israeli Turkey? Maybe you can give the Zulus Somolia in exchange for their lack of interference? Now youve isolated Israel and even gained support of Italy.

Its a diffrent ballgame.

We allow and indeed encourage longdistance trading and tech trading. In one game a Mongol player switched to Fundamentalism, while the Indian player was democracy. The Indian did nothing but research tech, and then sold it to the Mongol. This allowing them to specialize was incredibly beneficial and indeed effecient. This kind of cooperative action does not meerly occur, its required to stay in the game. Further, if im Mali, and Israel wont allow me to cross the middle east to trade with other powers, im at a natrual disadvantage unless I build ships. Israel would also control the Suez canal, using a ship he can block all traffic and charge a toll, which would hinder Italian trading.

You begin to see how involved it all is?

Now compare this to a duel with such rules as "no tech trading", where the concept of negotiations extending beyond the most basic "you dont hurt me, me no hurt you".

Im not nessecarily putting down Duels, this is a game, and however you wish to play it is correct.

But my point is that in a Diplogame, your "skills" at civ are diluted and minimized, and your "skills" at diplomacy take on many new dimensions. Some people have a natrual flare for it.

If you have taken intrest in a diplogame, then you probably already are capable of doing just fine. A willingness to "deal" is the only thing you need to survive in a diplogame.

	17-02-2001 05:07									#3
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There is another school of thot Chaos, & that is NOT to play on a known map. I would strongly advise a new player NOT to go into an arena where some of the other competitors (& it IS a competition) already know the map. Where to go, where the good city sites are, exactly how many squares it is to cross an ocean, & a lot more.

Just as the lengthy dialog above suggests... it is all known to the experienced guys.

There are many that want the excitement, challenge, REALISM, & adventure of DISCOVERY of NEW world, where NO ONE knows what lies around the next bend. Just like true bold leaders that discovered & built our world.

To that end, if U want an even game & enjoy discovering who-knows-what or who... we are just starting such a game on Thurs eves. See the topic about "Unknown World Diplo", & throw your hat in the ring.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by KenThur (edited February 16, 2001).]</font>

	17-02-2001 16:41									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well, most of the points both of you are talking about were sort of known to me before, thank you for the detailed help though, especially to CNG...Spam... hmmmm..

As far as the non-discovered but well-known Americas are concerned, what would be the matter with a Diplogame in the 19th century, for example, when most of the world was discovered but not colonized yet. It could start in some kind of scenario, beginning in 1815, just like Imperialism, you get my point. Wouldn't that be an idea?

Hey, even if it was on a random map or so, would you guys for example try a Dip game with me, if we get a few more into it?

Hey, anyone fancy a 3 player Diplogame on a small map?
Why are you laughing, it should be quite anidea for a training game

	17-02-2001 19:56									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

What exactly is a DiploGame? Is it some form of cooperative game between all the players?

	17-02-2001 20:02									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Before you get into Ken's game, I suggest you try another one. I was in his game and you almost need some type of background to play in it, there are Raging Hordes and its on Deity, thus if you have no Diplo experience this could become a major problem.

As of right now, our Diplgogame (mine and GNGS Spam's) has an opening. The Chinese player has not contacted me in almost a week and failed to show up (Even late as he usually does) for the first session, would you consider a temporary position that could become permanent?

I think our group has enough credibility to "survive" a newbie in case you can't hack it, so we'd be happy to break you in.

	17-02-2001 23:48									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

OK, I was just PMed by another player, who'd like to play in a DipGame with me... the one prefers Turn-Based though, as I do BTW

	18-02-2001 01:06									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Maybe I should note that you don't have to wait for a new diplogame to start. Entering a game in progress playing as a sub works just as well.

In fact it's easier to get some diplo experience as a sub because you're usually allied or have close relations with a neighbouring civ that will take you under his wings for awhile (both parties benefit from this ). The fact that you get an up and running civ at the start can be confusing at the start but you usually get the hang of it after some turns. In fact most subs tend to become permanent subs after awhile.