24-12-1999 07:06									#1
	PBEM tournament, looking for players! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi All,

I am thinking about to organize a SMAC/SMACX PBEM tournament. The idea is to have as many players as interested, and get them play a lot of 3 player games in all sort of combination. the games would progress parallel as PBEM games are slow anyway. Each game would award certain number of points to its winner - maybe depending on the victory type (e.g. transcendence higher than conquer), but perhaps a time related scoring is better (faster victory earns more points). This is open to discussion.

The main point is to make the games as balanced as possible, but still use different factions.

For a 3 player game, the most balanced map I can imagine is the following setup. Three identical islands, placed at equal distance from each other along the equator. No landmark on them - although some jungle and some Uranium squares might be placed to give a little boost, the HQ is pregenerated with population 3 in the centre of the island. It would also have some basic infrastructure: recycling tank, children's creche, perimeter defense. Each player would start with 5 extra colony pods, 5 scouts and 5 terraformers and all level 1 techs known to everybody. I would also add 2 big land masses along the north and south edges of the map containing all the landmarks and an AI faction each (it could be the Caretakers and the Usurpers in SMACX - just for fun). The AI factions would be in a lot more advanced infrastructure, e.g. 10 well equipped bases each - but not too many units,
only a scout in each base and a terraformer.
The human player islands would be big enough to hold at least 10 bases in ICS pattern.
The whole map would be 'small' or similar custom size.

I would post a single player version of the map, which could be loaded into a scenario editor for study, so that each player can be familiar with the island. And of course, the 3 islands would be completely identical.

Every player can list a number of factions he/she would like to play, then we would setup several games to combine the players. E.g. 4 players can play 4 different games (every possible 3 out of 4), but if there is a lot of interested players, then it is not necessary to play all combinations as that could be too many games.

I would act as CMN (Creator, Moderator Narrator) for games where I am not participating. I'd like to ask other players to act as CMN in games where I am a player. The job of the CMN will be easy as all games are played on the same map, the CMN simply needs to place down the appropriate factions in the given game and assign the passwords.

I would like to get players, who are willing to play a turn each day. We might even introduce strict rules, e.g. if a player does not respond without prior notice in given time frame (24 or 48 hours), then it means he has given up that game. Of course, games can be postponed if someone notifies the players and CMN, that he/she can't play for a certain number of days (holiday, illness etc).

If there is enough interest, I'll create the map during the Xmass holidays and we could start up the tournament soon after.

Anybody who is interested, please post here or drop me an email at zsolt@simbiosys.ca

zsozso

	29-12-1999 04:15									#2
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Now I have created the map for the tournament. You can download the map file and play it in normal single player games or have a look at it in the scenario editor.

Some verbal description:
The map size is 66x66 squares. There are 2 main land masses along the north and south poles contaning all the special landmarks (these would be empty or occupied by AI factions in the tournament games). Futhermore there are 3 islands where the PBEM players would start, these fit within 12x12 squares with some ocean bays cutting into that territory and they are placed at equal distance from each other along the equator.

There are 1 square wide (zig-zag shaped) separator islands spanning from north to south between the player islands. These islands make it harder to reach the other players via the ocean. Without these, one could have sailed over to the next island in a single turn (at a distance of 4 'diagonal' east-west squares). Now, you either have to sail around at north or south, or break through it by terraforming down the ocean level in an adjacent square.

The player islands are completely identical down to the last detail (elevation, fungus, rockiness, unity pods, special resource squares) including the surrounding ocean shelf squares that could be worked by coastal bases. Each one contains:

[*] Mini uranium flats (6 squares)
[*] Mini jungle on the east (arid) side (10 squares)
[*] Mini geothermal shallows in a bay (7 squares)
[*] A mountain in the middle, 3 squares above 3000 feet.
[*] 2 energy, 2 food and 2 minerals specials.
[*] 3 monoliths
[*] 22 unity pods
[*] 5 forest squares
[/list]

The food specials, monoliths and forest squares are placed on arid squares to help populating those regions.

You can download an screenshot of an island in either BMP(555KB), GIF(293KB) or JPEG(159KB) format.

Let me know what you think about the map!
I am open to suggestions for improvements.
I would be happy to see your comments.

zsozso

	29-12-1999 21:37									#3
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	30-12-1999 01:03									#4
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i think i could join, but i would want to join only one game... and i'm not that interested in a tournament. so i can join if i can't get in vel's diplomacy game. (which sound fantastic) why couldn't you zso start a diplomacy game? if vel isn't around anymore. he hasn't been around for awhile.

	30-12-1999 07:49									#5
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Cthol:

He did warn us a couple of days ago in teh general thread.

Quote (my italics):

Velociryx
posted December 27, 1999 02:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G'morning everyone.....a quick note before I hit the sack for a few random winks before the alarm goes off for work later this morning.....yep, everyone who's ilnterested will get fit into a game, but as it stands now, with Y2k testing looming all this week, I will not be able to start any of the games til after the first....

Apologies for the delays in getting the games up and running, but I want to make sure I do the victory conditions justice and make it really interesting for all parties involved.....

I'll skip lunch tomorrow and try to get a few things hammered out on it, and will report back here with updates!

-=Vel=-

I'm as interested as everyone else, having been one of the players in Vel's first crashed Diplomacy game, so let's cut him some slack.

Googlie

	30-12-1999 18:28									#6
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OK... sorry. i didn't see the post... i'll wait.

	30-12-1999 20:32									#7
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You are right Googlie, we should give some slack to Vel. I wouldn't attempt to start up a diplomacy challenge PBEM, even though I am very interested in participating.

As for the tournament, this won't start before new year either. I have received some (moderate) interest in email too in addition to those who posted here, but it looks like people are quite occupied with the Holidays (and/or Y2K bugs) right now.

The starting scenario template is ready for some play-testing now. I invite all of you to playtest it in single player or hotseat mode. You can download 2 versions of it:
3 human factions on the islands only OR
5 factions with progenitors on the polar continents

The human factions are the Drones, Cyborgs and Data Angles. Of course, you can change that in the scenario editor if you want to play-test with different factions.

Each player faction starts with a size 3 base with Childrens creche, recycling tank, perimeter defense, plus 5 colony pods, 5 formers and 5 scout patrols and 200 energy.
The progenitors start with 7 established bases (same infrastructure) with a scout and a former in each.

The AI has been setup to be extremely aggressive against the human player(s) with some additional strategy settings (e.g. the progenitors are fixed in pact with each other), therefore I anticipate it being a challanging game even in single player against the artifical idiot. But only testing will tell if I am right, so I'm off to fight...

zsozso
[This message has been edited by zsozso (edited December 30, 1999).]

	31-12-1999 03:12									#8
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A few comments on the map:

It looks great! But if you want the separator islands to work as desired, you might want to make them 2 squares wide, or make them entirely covered with rocky and/or fungus squares. As they are you can quite easily build a city on them and thus have an artificial canal.

Also, there seem to be few suitable port city locations on the western side of the player islands.

I would be interested in joining the tournament, but I cannot start playing until around the 10th. If one or more games does not start until then, count me in.
[This message has been edited by Tau Ceti (edited December 30, 1999).]

	31-12-1999 07:53									#9
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Thanks for the comments Tau Ceti! Good points!

Separator islands: I would leave them 1 square wide and allow the possibility of base-canal, because that has some extra cost/time and also requires some defense otherwise the opponent can take over the canal city easily - so such bases could make some interesting twists on the games. Also breaking through the separator with a terraformer opens it both ways, but a city is like a controlled gate defended by one of the players. But it makes sense to make the building of such city a little harder by rocky/fungus squares (that way you need to bring a former first and it takes time to prepare the place).

On the west side port city question you are completely right! I'll remove some fungus and repost the map. I used random fungus placement (as well as rockiness etc) first for one island, then copied everything to the other two square by square - if you notice any difference, please let me know, because that would be a bug in my copy process...

ps. I have now updated the 2 scenario files!
The above links point to the new versions now.


[This message has been edited by zsozso (edited December 31, 1999).]

	02-01-2000 09:18									#10
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I've been thinking about what scoring system to use. Straight fall-out tree or group systems would imply some game order dependencies, which could spoil it in PBEM (drag it too long). Full round system might take too long even for 5 players.

So, I decided to make it very 'liberal' and loose. Games can be started as players show up, have time to play more games - no particular restriction, except for avoiding to repeat games with exact same 3 players. Then I would maintain a table of games in progress and completed as administration, and the scoring table.

The scoring table would rank players primarily according to number of wins, secondary ranking (within same #wins) by the sum of game completion mission years (the lower the better), i.e. faster winning counts as better. The alpha centauri score sum could act as tertiary ranking if the end-date sum does not decide either. Note, that faster win has higher priority than score to avoid delaying the victory for higher score.

To save the situation where some players just drop a game and stop responding, thus spoiling the fun for the other 2 players and making impossible to decide the winner, I would introduce a time limit, e.g. 48hr, after which the CMN of the game would step in and eradicate the non-responding faction (e.g. by obliterating the bases and disbanding the units), so that the other 2 players can finish the game. In case someone knows he/she can't play for a while (illness, holidays etc.), the other players and the CMN should be notified and the game can be postponed.

Anybody can join the tournament any time or stop playing further games. The score table would be an ongoing thing, always showing who is the current "champion".

I have found a couple of smaller problems with the scenario during play-testing. I'll repost it again when corrected.

	04-01-2000 08:27									#11
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ok, what the heck, I'm in. It's got to last more than the 3 turns of the Usurper Hunt PBEM...

	05-01-2000 03:34									#12
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I have fixed the bugs I found by play-testing the starting map (scenario), so it is ready to play now. The files can be downloaded from:

3 human factions on the islands only OR
5 factions with progenitors on the polar continents

Those who are interested in playing, please indicate your faction preference (possibly multiple ones in priority order). For better balance, I would like to leave the progenitor factions for the AI, so please choose human factions only.

zsozso

	05-01-2000 04:00									#13
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I'm curious...
How can u use diplomatic options while playing by E-Mail? (e.g. council, or trade techs)

	05-01-2000 05:26									#14
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My faction preferences:

SMAC:
1. Hive
2. Gaians
3. University

SMACX:
1. Drones
2. Hive
3. Cyborgs

Giodenti: Diplomacy in PBEM is a rather slow affair, carried out over several turns... You make an offer, the other player makes a counter-offer, you both accept etc. Council proposals also have to reach all players before a decision is made. You can try it by playing a hotseat game against yourself.

	05-01-2000 18:29									#15
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Ok, i would like to join... but i'm still waiting for smacx to arrive by mail...
I can take any factions...
But...

I like peacekeaper...

-Giov
giovanni.denti@enet.it

	06-01-2000 03:58									#16
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I would like to sign up. I can play at least one turn a day. I am willing to take on playing any faction from SMAC or SMACX. If it is not to late to sign up, you can reach me at wrlang86@ hotmail.com or wrlang@dixie-net.com.

	07-01-2000 00:19									#17
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I 'd like to sign up too!
My faction preferences for the specific game as you described it:
SMAC: 1.Hive 2.Peacekeapers
SMACX: 1.Drones 2.Hive
I haven't play SMAC online yet, so please inform me, sould i download the SMAC 4.0 version, or having SMACX in my hard disc resolves the different version problems?
thanks.
[This message has been edited by Myronides (edited January 06, 2000).]

	07-01-2000 03:38									#18
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Wow, Zsozso! This idea is really a lot like my "Islanders" concept!

Since you're playing in Islanders, I'd like to reciprocate here. I can't do SMACX yet because I use multiple computers and do not always have access to the disk.

Faction preferences are Peacekeepers, Gaians, U of P, and Hive not necessarily in that order.

	07-01-2000 04:25									#19
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DilithiumDad, yes you deserve all the credit for the base idea - your game inspired me to create this map and start up this tournament. But I wanted to make it even more balanced, in the sense that each player should be in the same distance and location relative to the others - hence the 3 player system. This way geography does not influence who can attacked faster.

Since we have enough players to start-up 2-3 games already, I think we should get going.

Some people would play SMAC only, others maybe interested in SMACX as well, so the best is to setup both. The SMAC version will have only the 3 players, no AI, the SMACX version will have the 2 progenitor factions played by the AI on the polar continents.

Here is the list of players so far:

Player	Email	Factions	AX
EdgeCrusher	edgecrusher2k@hotmail.com	???	+
Tau Ceti	larsheg@sensewave.com	Hive,Gaia,UoP,Drone,Cyborg	+
RockVille	rockville@zdnetmail.com	???	+
Giodenti	giovanni.denti@enet.it	any(PK)	later
DinoDoc	wrlang86@ hotmail.com wrlang@dixie-net.com	any	+
Myronides	myronides@otenet.gr	Hive,PK,Drone	+
DilithiumDad	pre@po.cwru.edu	PK,Gaia,UoP,Hive	-
Zsozso	zsolt@simbiosys.ca	Gaia,UoP,Sparta,Cyborg,Probe	+

I'd like to ask some of you to volunteer for CMN in games where I will be playing. Also, please indicate if you do not mind playing several games concurrently.

zsozso
[This message has been edited by zsozso (edited January 06, 2000).]

	07-01-2000 05:26									#20
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I will happily play as many games as you can throw at me, but not before the 10th. Sorry.

What does the CMN do?

	07-01-2000 17:18									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sounds interesting. I would like to play. I don't have SMACX. Favorite factions are University, Peacekeepers and Morgan

	08-01-2000 10:56									#22
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I 'm afraid i can't volunteer for CMN or even play several games concurrently, due to lack of experience.

	08-01-2000 06:09									#23
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I downloaded the game senario, but i didn't manage to play or edit it. Could someone instruct me how to, please?



[This message has been edited by Myronides (edited January 07, 2000).]

	08-01-2000 08:20									#24
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Tau Ceti,
The CMN has to load in the scenario file into the scenario editor, reassign the factions according to the players choice and reassign the existing base and units too. Then save it, start it with "multiplayer scenario option" and play a single turn - not doin anything with the units, but assigning some passwords to each. Then send out the save after the full turn to the first player and send the appropriate password to each player.
Later during the game the CMN may need to step in if someone does not respond (dropped the game) or if there is a debate of any kind.

Myronides,
You need to got to the Scenario menu, end choose either "Edit scenario" or "Play scenario" and then select the downloaded file.

	10-01-2000 14:50									#25
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zsozso,
I would like to try out these settings but I have a couple of questions,
1) I think switching bases with the AI should be forbidden, am I right?
2) Is level of difficulty transcend?

Sorry in advance if this is already been answered.

About my preferences,
I *hate* spoils of war on.
Preferred faction is UoP, but can play with anything else, no prob.
No plain SMAC, I'm already playing too many PBEMs and I want to try xfire (I hope v 2).
I'll play only a game for now, maybe more in the future.

	10-01-2000 20:48									#26
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Fistandantilus,

1) I could add that rule, but in this particular scenario it does not make any difference (I hope!), because I setup the prognitors to be in ubreakable vendetta with all human players also indicating attrocities committed by the human players against the progenitors and also setting the option "fight to the last man". In this mode, I do not think the AI will ever trade base or even talk to the players...

BTW, I also set agressive AI and put on some agenda, like focus on Air Power. All these settings make the progenitors a worthy opponent even played by the AI. At least as far as I could see in my play-testing of the scenario. First time in my life I was forced to use nerve-gas to be able to defeat the Usurpers, who came down on me with missile needlejets when my best unit was still impact rover.

2) I was thinking about Librarian (actually started the SMAC games that way already).
One reason was to avoid the maintenance-bug, although that is already fixed in v2 patch. The other reason is, that not everybody likes/used to the extreme drone problems associated with transcend level. On the other hand it does not make much difference against other human players.

The Spoils of war has a balancing effect: a player who is a bit behind another in tech, could catch up by taking over a few lowly bases. Without that, whoever grabs the first lead could easily ride the tech advantage to final victory. On the other hand, if the leading player has a substantial tech advance, then "Spoils of war" does not make much difference anyway.

But, of course we can change this if the majority of the players want to turn it off.
But we have to decide quickly, because I'd like to start ASAP and then I want to keep the games consistant.

Zsozso

	10-01-2000 21:16									#27
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1) Fine then.

2) Librarian? Then list me as 'I really would like to play UoP in this game' .

About spoils of war,
I don't like it because it helps too much momentum players, imho. You can simply get techs conquering bases instead of doing your research. It's just saying 'build a couple of rovers instead of a network node, you'll get much more'. If a player is behind in tech he should build probe teams, not rovers, imo. If everyone like spoils on though, it's fine for me. No prob.
[This message has been edited by Fistandantilus (edited January 10, 2000).]

	11-01-2000 01:10									#28
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Spoils of war is turned OFF, as per majority vote!

I resend the first 2 SMAC games (nobody played a turn yet, so it is not too late).
Tau Ceti also found some inconsistent tiles on the map, I also fixed those too. The final scenario files are now reposted on the page: http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum27/HTML/000100.html

Zsozso

	11-01-2000 05:42									#29
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i'll play Spartans in vanilla, or pirates in smacx.

------------------
"edgecrusher" Spartan Probe Team 'angelis'

	11-01-2000 05:54									#30
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Pirates? When you start in the middle of an island on a small world which is mostly land?