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Misotu
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Leamington Spa, England
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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Garth:
I have sent you a turn to both your email addys to try quickly. THIS IS NOT MY TURN!!!!!
I want to be really clear about this  My last turn was complicated to play and I'm pushed for time this morning, so all I've done is clicked end of turn, didn't move anything at all. But it will enable you to find out whether the game still ends when you take Morgan's base, or if it is the council that's causing the problem. If it's the council, let me know and I'll replay my turn (gnash) without calling the vote.
I've been thinking about this. Every game I've played in the tourny so far has ended when one of the human players was knocked out, and we had to organise an artificial situation in order to continue the game.
The reason why I didn't think about this was because so far it has only happened with the three-player tourny map. So in my mind, it was a bug associated with that particular map ... but now it looks like it's a more general problem.
ACT011, ACT018 and ACT003 all ended when a human player's last base fell, despite the fact that two players remained. ACT018 was about 2 turns away from being done anyhow, so we ended the game.
With the other two, we had to maintain the player's last base, rather than taking it. To save time, one of the remaining players was given the "deceased" player's password, and played the turn immediately before or after their own. The base was set to stockpile energy, units were disbanded, all workers not necessary to keep the base in a stagnant state were changed to doctors. We maintained a garrison or 2 (and in one game we built a perimeter) so that the base would not be destroyed by mindworms.
Pacts/treaties were cancelled so no-one received trade income.
It sounds to me like this is what we'll have to do in this game, too. If so, it's a bummer for Garth because it means that he loses a base ...
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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WE,
To be honest, I knew the game was up when Garth first went for me - there weren't a lot of military units when I took over and I should have done far more to build it up. Confrontation between me and Garth was inevitable - I saw it coming and didn't do enough to make sure I could hold my own. (Two missile rovers didn't quite cut the mustard, somehow )
Mis,
Getting to air power was a #1 priority, but I had to settle for Intellectual Integrity first time, and second time was too late. Had I been able to hold on for D:AP WE maybe would have had half a chance, but I didn't, and he had no chance, being the filling in a momentum sandwich.
A couple of problems with my game:
a) I really don't have much experience with the Morganites, and as far as I could see a couple of the bases were awkwardly placed. You've got to have territory with Morgan - breathing room, which we lacked severely.
b) I had several military units stacked on the border. Why, oh why didn't I seperate them? I saw the attack coming, and did nothing - when you do that, you are in serious mire. I guess that was inexperience on my part - next time I'll know better.
I think this whole game has been part of a particularly steep learning curve - this was my first serious PBEM, and I failed badly. Oh well, as I said, I'll know not to do it next time.
But extremely well done for a good game to everyone, not least WhiteElephants for not totally laying into me for not defending adequately against Garth.
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Garth Vader
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Saskatoon, SK, CA
Oct 1999
time: 22:13
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Ok, my 2 cents. I can't say how either of you should have played because I didn't have WE infiltraited ever, and Mark only on the turn that I first attacked. So I will recount the game from my perspective.
If possible the Gaians should have attacked me early. Before I basically surrendered to Mis I had nothing I didn't have planetary networks, Non linear math, industrial auto. I couldn't research worth a damn and between the AI and the worms attacking I lost some bases never mind expanding. My power graph was so small I couldn't even see it.
So if you remember (I know mark wasn't here yet) I posted a message here saying that I would basically surrender myself to anyone who would take me as an ally. Mis took me, gave me planetary networks, industrial auto, and a bunch more techs. I stole a Hive impact unit to get that weapon and started building units.
Mark moved a force to my border I expected an invasion, at that time I had basically no ability to defend and expected to die. Mark didn't invade, but just kept stacking units on my border and when I had enough impact rovers I hit his stack and kept going.
My advice is always to be a little more aggressive in the early game. But then again that is my style. It's tough to give Mark advice because he was the third player for Morgan and that's gotta be tough.
One question, I forgot what probe activities I was immune to when at +3 probe, could you still infiltrate and steal tech?
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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Garth,
When I took the game over in 2166 or whatever it was, all I could see of you was an outpost and a scout patrol. I saw I had several units on our border, so I thought, garrison. Another base appeared, and nothing happened. Simpson II told me that conflict would occur, but basically not to instigate it until I had D:AP. Of course, this was not forthcoming in the subsequent turns, so I had to stall. Why I didn't seperate the units God only knows, but they were sitting ducks for several impact rovers. Strike one.
I was producing two missile rovers, thinking it would act as a second line of defense. Of course, they stood no chance against the number of troops you brought over. Strike two.
I had tried to ensure I would get to D:AP, only failed to max out research when I needed to most. Strike three, you're out.
It isn't easy being the third player of a particular faction, especially when the three players were pursuing totally different strategies, from what I could see. Bustamike was playing a very isolationist game, Simpson played a more defensive game, and I just messed up. I should have done a lot more to defend, I know that, an invasion was inevitable. In truth, had I known about the inferiority of your position when I took over, I would have attacked sooner. I didn't, so I didn't.
BTW, +3 probe gives you immunity against subversion, and makes infiltration and other pt operations a lot harder, IIRC.
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Misotu
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Leamington Spa, England
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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 You know, it's always interesting finding out what other players thought at different points in the game. Here's an insight for you ... when Garth spotted Mark's "several military units" he basically contacted me and said something like: Morgan has a huge attack force right on my border. I am finished - he's not likely to hold off for the 3 or 4 turns I need to attack first.
In our terms, the force was indeed huge and with better weapons too (missile I think). We didn't even have the tech for impact weapons then - Garth could build them because he'd just bribed a Hive rover, but I couldn't. So I was stuck with (ahem) LASER rovers and was still around 8 turns from discovering impact weapons. We were absolutely *desperate* Had either of you managed to infiltrate either of us at this point? We had not infiltrated either of you then.
We had a few email exchanges, trying to work out what to do. It seemed clear that Morgan was on the attack. Plan A was how much Garth could give me before he was wiped out. Plan B was trying to keep Garth alive to mount a counter-attack, and that's what we decided to do. I couldn't see how I could take on both Gaians and Morgans alone, plus my war with the PKs, if Morgan got Garth's bases in the Flats ... Laser vs missile??? Not a hope
If Mark had not put that force on the border and convinced us that he was on the move, our attack would have been delayed considerably as we just didn't think we were ready. Our idea was a pincer movement against Morgan - but a Spartan attack force armed with lasers seemed ridiculous So we were waiting for me to get impact ... and that wait would possibly have been enough for you guys to get to air power before us ...
Food for thought, eh?
Mark: I still think that maybe the Gaian/Morgan axis could have got to air power a little faster - don't forget that there were two former Morgans before you. I was really thinking about the fundamental approach to the game, not the choices you made at the point when you arrived - by then, there wasn't much you could do to change the basics already laid down. I don't know how much the various Gaian/Morgan partnerships prioritised research facilities/energy production in the earlier game.
What I *do* know is that I got a load of dross from my pact with UoP - completely stuffed me as far as researching anything useful in the early game, and could easily have cost us the game because of the length of time I took to get to impact.
I have a question ... which of you bribed the Hive to maintain a vendetta against the Believers? I found out about this just before the game ended - the Hive said they wouldn't call it off because they'd been paid, but of course they don't tell you who did the paying
Also, when you bribed them, were you at vendetta with the Believers or ... ? I'm interested to know whether a human player receives a notification if someone they are pacted/treated with bribes an AI to declare vendetta ...
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01-11-2000 06:05
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