29-03-2000 11:25									#1
	Demographics Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In Civ2 and ToT the Demographics are kind of screwy and I wondered if anyone knew how to interpret them. GNP I believe is 1 million for each coin, and land area is 1000 sq mls for each square you have been in last or have got resources out of last. But for GNP per capita GNP/pop doesn't equal out right plus the other ones I don't have any clue how they calculate. Does anyone have any idea?

	29-03-2000 12:40									#2
	Got spare money?

ltswww.epfl.ch/~winkler/civ2.html#Demographics

	30-03-2000 04:24									#3
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Oh wow, cool. I actually do learn something new about civ2 every day. I never knew what procuctivity and gnp really were. But I always tried to get #1 anyway. Build city improvements etc.

Thanks!

	30-03-2000 06:01									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm not sure what they are talking about when it comes to productivity.
Shields (minus support) per square in use (?) ???

Productivity to me is how much work each person is doing in a given sqaure. There are three things that a sqaure can give you - trade, food and shields.

Depending on the type of sqaure (terrain, specials...) you'll get a combination of these three items, or maybe just one if it's crappy terrain.

Government type also has a play in what a sqaure produces (extra shields, trade...). Same with some improvments (mines, farmland). Factories, manufacturing plants, banks and such are not a factor in productivity. Some improvements do increase productivity. Harbors, offshore rigs/platform and supermarket (with farmland) increase food and shields a ocean sqaure produce. Another increase would be from rails on certain terrain. The Colossos will up your productivity. Basicly anything that adds a graphic icon (trade arrow, shield or food) to the land in the city window.

A great sqaure would be a whale in a city with a harbor, offshore rig with a good government type. This sqaure will produce many food, shields and trade. So this one sqaure is high productivity. A nasty sqaure is an mountain sqaure with no specials and no improvments. You get only 1 shield. this is very low productivity. The procuctivity in demographics is an average of all your sqaures currently being worked.

So, when looking at demographics - productivity, you can get an idea of the following. What kind of terrain you have compared to others. If someone has real high procuctivity they probably have good terrain. If your not watching what your people are doing your productivity might start to fall. It's basicly how productive your people are being.

As far as specials that produce a load of one kind of resource, like gold (you get a ton of trade and not much else). I'm not sure if this is considered average, low or high productivity (but it's still a nice sqaure to work!).


At least this is the way I look at productivity.


[This message has been edited by My Wife Hates CIV (edited March 29, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by My Wife Hates CIV (edited March 29, 2000).]

	30-03-2000 13:55									#5
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yeah I don't consider productivity that important anymore. I used to think it improved when I had manf. plants and factories whent the ai didn't. But a lot of the time I'm still second in productivty. It looks like manufactured good is the biggie for me. I love production.

	30-03-2000 14:20									#6
	Support Apolyton

It's just another way of comparing your civ with another. Actually, with this demographics screen, if your a powerful civ this is a powerful tool. If your number 1 or 2 you can take workers out of the fields and check demographics again. You'll see as you slide down the ranks (because your not producing as many shields or trade arrows anymore) where everyone else fits in. You really can tell how close everyone is the first night of a MP game when you take one worker off a gold special in one city and go from 1st to 4th in GNP!

Even if your not the #1 civ you can do the same. Just place all your workers on sqaures to produce food until your #1 in average family size (or whatever that slot is called). Or produce nothing but sheilds or trade arrows until your #1 in demographics (if you can) to see how everyone else is doing. You may not be able to really tell how each civ is doing but you can kinda tell how your civ is doing compared to everyone elses as a whole.


And IMHO, the Colossos is the most powerful early wonder in MP games. If you have the right kinda land that extra trade arrow in every sqaure already producing trade... oh baby!
[This message has been edited by My Wife Hates CIV (edited March 30, 2000).]

	30-03-2000 19:48									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't know if some of you have recognized it before or if it's an included bug only in the German version of Civ2 /any Versio, from the original to FW), but I discovered that in the "Annual Income" and "GNP" NEARLY ALWAYS the purple civilizations got the first rank!!! Their income is listed so huge, that you won't reach it without a great empire, although this civ (Mongol, Indian or Sioux) has a small empire for itself. Finally, in the later game, when I'm in a Democracy, I can overtake them, at least in "Annual Income" (per capita).
But it's definitely a bug what I'm talking about. I'd really like to know if it also appears in the English/French versions and if it generally appears in MGE.

------------------
"When a man lies, he murders some part of the world. These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer. Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?"
Cliff Burton (1962-1986), 1988 ("To Live Is To Die")

	30-03-2000 20:28									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Andz83 - yes, the purple civ infinite income bug does appear in English-language Civ II, both in versions 2.42 and MGE.

	30-03-2000 20:50									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Do you by chance know about this bug in 2.78 (Fantastic World)? Does anybody know?

	31-03-2000 02:35									#10
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I have always wondered why the Indians/Sioux/Mongols had such high income.

	31-03-2000 20:40									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

I have been trying to graph these statistics in a graph using excel or something. but i can`t get it sorted out. With the high level of some of the values, the others appear as a straight line at the bottom of the graph. HELP!

	01-04-2000 00:02									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I wonder why this bug has NEVER been patched, even not in MGE !!!

------------------
"When a man lies, he murders some part of the world. These are the pale deaths, which men miscall their lives. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer. Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?"
Cliff Burton (1962-1986), 1988 ("To Live Is To Die")
[This message has been edited by Andz83 (edited March 31, 2000).]

	11-04-2000 02:39									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I used to have the GNP/income bug too, the purple civ always had huge numbers even when it was dismal (even a pathetic little despotic country with 3 cities had a GNP of $4800m or something like that)
But since I have MGE it's gone.

	11-04-2000 05:54									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

No wonder the Mongols are always such a nuisance - bottomless Swiss bank accounts!

Well, since there is no patch, can you work around the bug by always playing as the purple civ? You could edit rules.txt if you don't like being Mongolian/Sioux/Indian.

	11-04-2000 12:36									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I dunno. My rules.txt are edited so that there are no Mongols in my game. I am Icelandic and I replaced them with my custom tribe, The Icelandic

I would think I'd always play as purple, but that's not the case. The Icelandic are white, but they start in Mongolia... I then have either the Sioux or Indians against me (I always play with 7 civs). Needless to say, the purples dominate the Demographics.

Fixed in MGE? Let's have it