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The Joker
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Copenhagen, Denmark
Aug 1999
time: 06:14
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Post number 6000! COOL!
Anyway:
I think we have all realized that Firaxis has given us almost no feedback, although there has been put 1000s of manhours into this thread, and fabolous ideas have emerged. I know that Firaxis might use the ideas made here, but as far as we know, they could just be trashed. And that's too bad.
Therefor i have a suggestion: Send them an e-mail. I know that we have sent The List, and there might be people individually, that have sent e-mails too them, but i can understand them if they don't read all the mail they get, and The List is over 400 pages. We should send them an e-mail that they can read in no time - meaning about half a page in Word, that describes our situation. We should send it to as many Firaxians as possible, hoping that at least one realixes our potential. We should, of cause, not just write that we don't like to post here without getting any feedback, but see it from their point of view: They have 100s of people who are willing to work for them - free (!) - on anything they want. As examble we could take the Interface thread, that shows that we can be used for anything. How many games would have that? Firaxis could use us to help with anything: combat, maps etc. etc. If Firaxis begins to use us as consultants Civ3 could truly be the greatest game of all time.
The letter should be from all of us, and so it should be posted and debated at a thread here first.
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raingoon
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Los Angeles
Aug 1999
time: 21:14
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Before we send another letter, let's try to see it from Firaxis' point of view as well. Clearly they're willing to look at our ideas but not willing to discuss them with us.
To ask Firaxis for a dialogue about any of our suggestions would be to take a game that is probably a year away from release and open it up to the press. Even if we sent them one letter a week that asked one question we all voted on, even then, the information we would be getting weekly would be more than Firaxis has ever given out before.
Also I have to remember that this is one of the most highly anticipated games in computer software history. There isn't an issue on these boards that has not been hotly debated. Think about it: Firaxis rightly assumes that if they reveal that a certain game feature has been adopted to the exclusion of all others in Civ 3, a hue and cry would arise in the form of renewed public debate.
Essentially, we're trying to negotiate for information with someone who doesn't have any incentive to give us any information whatsoever. I think we can safely forget that we offer any kind of "consulting" service. We've not only already given them that particular milk, we've handed over the cow and the farm is for public grazing. So, my suggestion is to put ourselves in their shoes and develop a list of what might be their real problems in giving us information.
First, no matter what the game is like somebody will call it a disappointment. Nobody wants to invite a slap.
Second, consumer anticipation is like gold. Giving out information is like giving away money and inviting criticism in return.
Looking at those two points, I can't see how it would behoove them to change from their current strategy and release any information. It would be nice to be wrong.
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I doubt the folks at Firaxis have as much spare time on their hands as the typical Apolyton addict… oooooh, aaahhhh got my fix!
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loinburger
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Sweet Sauce Jones
Jul 1999
time: 00:14
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Any emails we send will be ignored, and the only thing we can hope to accomplish with harassment is an acknowledgement of our existence in the form of an angry reply from Brian Reynolds (or a similar entity) saying "We got your list, now SHUT UP ALREADY!!!" I'm certain that this is not the type of acknowledgement that most of us posters want.
Raingoon's right, and points out a fact that most of us posters seem to have forgotten--we are mere consumers here, we are NOT part of the development team. True, we ARE extremely diehard consumers, and we have given Firaxis some very good (and, let's admit it, some terrible) advice as to what direction to take Civ III in. Firaxis can completely ignore our list if they choose to, but they do so at their own risk; as Civ:CTP has demonstrated, even a good concept can be skewed into ruination; and as SMACX has demonstrated, sometimes you can't just take an expansion pack, label it a sequel, and expect it to sell like hotcakes. But we as posters seem to have forgotten one key point: WE are not creating this game. How many of us have begun a post with "we should put such and such in Civ III" or "we should do such and such to Civ III" or "we" this or "we" that? While this usage of "we" is sometimes simply used as a convenient nomenclature, not intended to imply that "we" means Apolyton posters, I'll bet that some of us have sometimes forgotten just where we sit on the totem pole.
It would be nice for Firaxis to acknowledge all of our hard work, but we should NOT let it get us down if Brian Reynolds fails to send each of us a thousand dollar check in the mail, or even fails to curtly nod his head in recognition of us. It's time to sit back and let the chips fall where they may.
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johnmcd
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Edinburgh
Oct 1999
time: 05:14
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If anyone does want their suggestions taken seriously, and recognition of their efforts, they should take a trip to the Alt Civ threads and share their wisdom there.
Another point Firaxis must be aware of is the copyright issues raised by openly accepting a suggestion made here. If some writes- what if you could build theme parks in your cities? and then that turns up in the game, there could be grounds for someone to sue for royalties on account of their contribution. So even if they do take our ideas on, and are gratful for them it may be just too risky to admit it to us. I don't blame them.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by johnmcd (edited November 23, 1999).]</font>
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johnmcd
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Edinburgh
Oct 1999
time: 05:14
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I'm not sure you got the right end of the stick. I meant If I wrote, What about theme parks and presented a super detailed models like the ones that used to get posted and then Firaxis sent an e-mail or posted or whatever, nice one we've decided to include your idea in the game as you described it in your model would there not then be a case for royalties? But because Firaxis don't even acknowledge recepit of these ideas there is no possibility of them having to defend any such claim. On the other hand the fact that Brian Reynolds appealed for interface ideas suggests I am completely wrong.
Raigoon: Are you in the US? because copyright laws there are significantly different from Europe.
Anyway I don't think posting here is dreaming, I'm sure Firaxis do look here to see which ideas get dumped on and which ones everyone thinks are great.
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19-11-1999 19:59
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