21-02-2000 01:43									#1
	EC3 New Idea #19 - New modes of Victory Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

by carnide_

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</font>I'd like to have 3 maps on one: The political map (as in CIV1/2), the Religion map (Only possyble after Monotheism), The Market Dominance map (After the Corporation)
You could win: as in CIV1/2 by military conquest/AC, but also by converting all the map to your religion, or by market dominance of all the map.
In this way, a small, no army, country could be a major power in the game (Vatican, Swiss, ...).
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	21-02-2000 01:52									#2
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I LOVE this 3-maps idea. This is a great way to separate three distinct routes to victory. Not winning according to the normal political map? Overlay the religion map and see that you're actually in second place! The other great thing about this idea is that implies two other very important advancements needed -- a sophisticated religon model and a sophisticated trade model (and I hope somebody nominates Religion soon! ), which there must be.

	21-02-2000 04:04									#3
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I second this also. Make for multiple roads to victory!

	22-02-2000 02:53									#4
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I also second this.

	22-02-2000 12:17									#5
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i second this as well

	22-02-2000 21:02									#6
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This is absolutely the most brilliant idea on this board. They'd be fools to not include it.

	23-02-2000 00:03									#7
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I agree, I think this is the best idea I've seen so far.

	24-02-2000 10:31									#8
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carnide_

if asked why out of the five things to put on the new ideas thread why would this idea belong? what are the greatest strength in adding this idea? and what if any weaknesses or exploits does this idea have?

could you give a little more details on how this could work? how would you conver areas on one f the non-political maps? would you still be in charge or would religion and trade be more random, though you could still encourge and nudge it in the right direction...orwould you be the president, the general, the CEO, and the pope?

	24-02-2000 06:57									#9
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The way I see it:
The standard map is the usual CIV map, with the cities, rivers, units, whales, ...

Once you get Mono, you have to choose a name for your religion. Then, a second map unfolds. On that map, you can see all the cities you knew from the standard map, but the color on the cities shows not the political owner, but the religious owner. Like the original setller, a new unit shows: a priest unit. You have control of it, and it can convert people inside cities. In that map, you can see converted people in the population rooster. The more people you convert, the more money you can collect. With money, you can buy new priest units.
Priest are visible in the first map, and can be killed, but if they are killed in a city radius, all the converted citizens will become unhappy. You need to think twice before killing priests. And you will need to build a few, in order to convert people back.
A religion needs no capital. Just priests, converteds and money.
----
Now, the market dominance starts almost in the same way, with a banker unit. The banker unit can rushbuild markets, banks, factories, .... inside any city. They will belong to it. Markets, banks will produce extra revenue, and he will get the extra cash (after Taxes). Factories will produce extra shields, that can be used to build caravans for trade. With that money, the banker unit can rushbuild more city improvements, build more banker units, or buy those belonging to other banks. If you kill a banker, all the trade routes with your civ and that bank can be relocated by the bank, to other cities/Civs at will. And the bank can disband city improvements to raise cash. So, think carefully. You will loose a lot of money.
A bank can lend money to CIVs/ churches. They will payback in the next turns, a few coins a turn. A bankrupted CIV will sell city improvements to make cash, as usual. A bankrupted church will be an easy target for other churches.
----
I think this is simple, easy and will give a new twist to the game. Even if you dont have any cities left, you can own almost all the CIVs! LOL. Sweet revenge.

	24-02-2000 08:00									#10
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I second it.

	24-02-2000 10:00									#11
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carnide,

I know Korn469 is trying to get more specifics from you, but I would resist getting to specific. I liked your basic idea -- three maps, three routes to victory. How those routes are implemented I suggest leaving to other models.

Religion, for one, received a great deal of discussion last summer (see the Religion Thread) and stands now as a new idea in its own right. The problem with what you're suggesting now is that if I don't like even one part of your idea, and I personally don't think you've got the religion quite right, I'm not going to second it. But if you contain your idea to "3 maps, at least 3 routes to victory," than I, for one, would be behind it. It need only be described as "Map Overlays" which appear over the known main map, i.e., hitting the F1 key reveals the religion map, and F2, the market map. It implies that religion is in the game, but that can be left to another thread.

Now, of course, this is my opinion. I'm not saying don't suggest your religion idea if it's the one you truly want. After all, this is your thread!

	24-02-2000 15:55									#12
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Carnide
In many countries tru out the history the church/ tempels has been the bank. In that way the bank canīt lend money to the church.

(Sorry for my English.)

	25-02-2000 03:37									#13
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hmmmm....
1) 3 (or more) roads to victory. One is military conquest/AC, the others I called them Religion/Economics. NO big fuss with the details. The ones posted above are just suggestions. You can come up with more.

2) I know about that. But in modern economies, the banking system is a "de facto" power. Thats the reason why you can only get to this 3rd map after you get the Corporation, much more later than Monotheism.

3) Have Fun. This sugestion was intended to make the game more playable at modern ages in MP. If you are a punny civ at the start, maybe you can have your chance later. With the right balance, it will be very hard to be the first in all the 3 maps.

	10-03-2000 00:36									#14
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I think (and others too) thought this was one of the very best new ideas. Can't someone please do a final draft on this so we can vote for it?

	10-03-2000 00:55									#15
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New Idea #14 - New Modes of Victory

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Civ3 should include new methods of victory which would allow a civ to have more power than it's physical size implies. To this ends there should be three maps.

• The political map: This is the normal map that represents a civilization's political and military power and size. This map is currently the only map Civ2 has and it would be the default map for Civ3.
  
• The religious map: This map would represent the various religious faiths and their relative power.
  
• The Market Dominance map: This map would represent a civ's (or corporation's) economic prowess. Trade routes would appear on this map and it would display ownership of property and facilities ect.