23-10-1999 12:18									#1
	Multiple Linked World Map Project (MLWMP) Increase the size of your Attachments

Jorrit V. (Mercator) has agreed to start work on a set of 4 linked maps, each comprising one quarter of the earth. Combined they will create a huge multi-map of the earth. He will use Mike Daumen's brilliant technique of using slightly overlapping ROUND maps to create linked maps where you can move off the west side of one map onto the east side of the next. Impassible terrain is used to prevent units from passing from from west to east ON THE SAME MAP.

This project will provide a set of maps which allow ToT multi-theatre WWII scenarios, etc. If you have any ideas, or want to help, post on this thread. Thanks to Mike and Jorrit.

	24-10-1999 09:30									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Just curious, but do you think this technique would allow one to build a two map, East Med - West Med world for use in a (surprise, surprise) Ancient Empires scenario?

I can see Rome, Carthage, Antigonids, Ptolemies, Seleucids, Parthians, & Minor Powers. Two maps would really make things interesting!

	24-10-1999 03:32									#3
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Absolutely! Or for something like the Seven Year's War, with the main theatre in Europe, and secondary theatres in N. America and India. Or WWI: West front, East front, Italian front.

	25-10-1999 05:03									#4
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I think this method will work well for all the examples cited. The only problems I think we may encounter are

1) the differences in scale between some maps. Using the pacific and europe maps is a good example; only in the area I linked is there a really good correspondence.

2) having a link go all the way down a particular side. I will experiment to see if this is not too unwieldy.

Also, I can't figure out how to make terrain off-limits to some units. If that doesn't work then it needs to be powerful air units and warnings in the readme.

------------------
Michael Daumen

"the future is not yet"

	25-10-1999 06:43									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

Mike, in the ToT Rules Text there is an extra spot at the end of the terrain line, right after the spot that controls what the terrain can be transformed into. Put 'yes' for impassible terrain.

To make a unit which can move through impassible terrain, find its line under UNITS ADVANCED. In column 'G', put a '1' in the fourth spot.

	25-10-1999 19:29									#6
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How many squares of overlap do we need at each end for this techinique to work? Mike? Anyone?

	25-10-1999 23:40									#7
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I am badly in need for a huge accurate and digital (scanned/from website) map of the world. This map should either be in Mercator's or Miller's projection.

... I found one.


[This message has been edited by Mercator (edited October 27, 1999).]

	26-10-1999 09:37									#8
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This sounds great!

Can't wait for the maps to be up (I'm crap at designing maps myself).



------------------
'He who thinks great thoughts often makes great errors' - Martin Heidegger

	28-10-1999 01:25									#9
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Will 4 squares of overlapping (2 left, 2 right) suffice? If you want your maps before Christmas, don't think about it too long (nag nag)...

	28-10-1999 06:56									#10
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I think 4 (2 on each side) will work. Go ahead unless you hear from Mike Daumen in the next day or so.

	28-10-1999 12:09									#11
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OK... By the way, I have something (very) interesting to tell everybody (not just Civ2:ToT). Hmmm, I'm not sure if I should start a thread about it. I does have something to do with maps of course... But, well, I'll keep it a secret for just a bit longer.

	28-10-1999 19:06									#12
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Here is something to think about for your linked maps, a project which I'm toying with myself.
Keep in mind that in the old, old days (like 4000bc), the land was almost completely covered in trees. I make my western europe map that way, in which even Spain was covered in forest where there weren't hills or mountains. Of course, have the occasional coastal or even inland grassland square. Anyways, it had an immense effect on technological and expansion times. Tech slowed WAAAAY down (forest is bad for trade, and it takes a while to chop it down). It was tons of fun to play with the slower tech rates, though.
Also, each map will be able to have its own set of terrain features. Things to consider: Europe doesn't have a lot of desert, actually, none, really. So, you might want to replace desert with another type of mountain perhaps, allowing you one with different elevations, defensive bounses, etc. Perhaps in Asia you would want to have rice patties instead of irrigation (or whatever), you see what I mean.

	28-10-1999 20:27									#13
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Actually, just to be picky, Spain has a very small area of real (as in officially designated as) desert. I have been there on a field trip but cannot remember the name, it's in the SW part of the country. It's Europes only desert. Now you know
It wouldn't show up on a normal Civ map unless the scale was increased.

	29-10-1999 11:21									#14
	Remove this text

I live in Southwest Spain, I know what the region is like. My point is, it was much different at the beginning of the game's time period (4000 bc). Farming, deforestation, and mining have begun the cycle of desertification in Spain.
There is an old saying:
Centuries ago, a squirrel could jump from tree to tree from the north of spain to the south of spain without ever touching the ground.

So, start with the trees, let mankind strip them from the land, and reap the benefits of trade and food from there toils, and perhaps also the decay of the land from pollution.

	29-10-1999 14:09									#15
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hey, guys have you seen MapUtility?
http://apolyton.net/cgi-bin/smac/fi...nload.pl?id=130

just wondering in case you didnt....

	29-10-1999 14:34									#16
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how embarrasing lecturing a guy from Spain on his own country! thank ACS for these face symbols
[This message has been edited by Miner (edited October 29, 1999).]

	30-10-1999 00:03									#17
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The outlines of the maps are done! Only the terrains have to be filled in now.

The two leftmost and the two rightmost 'columns' is the overlapping/impassible/teleport part.

Download the maps here: http://civ2.sidgames.com/hosted/civ2/mlwmp/mlwmp.zip

Any comments, questions, suggestions or whatever are gladly received

	30-10-1999 01:54									#18
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Some observations:

1. The coastlines look great! DON'T DO ANY MORE YET!

2. It seems that when you place a transporter on Map A, another transporter is placed on the destination map for you. Thus I think only one side of each map needs to be glacier only.

3. Don't try to start a Sci-Fi game as your third map will be gas-gianty. I tried to change the secondary map characteristics but then my sci-fi game had only one map. I started a fantasy game and things look OK but theres no telling what will happen when real terrain is added.

	30-10-1999 02:23									#19
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OK some more thinks.

1. I'm beginning to wonder whether successive maps will need to be staggered in terms of where the impassable borders are.

2. Air units just fly right over that impassable terrain. We may need to use impassable units for post-1903 scenarios.

I will try a three-map file to see what works.

	30-10-1999 23:18									#20
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It seems that SidGames has finally lost it. The last couple of days my site was still available, now it's down. So the above link to the maps is broken... (Sorry for the inconvenience)

As an answer to your mail, Michael:
I don't have ToT. I haven't had a look at the map yet.

	01-11-1999 17:37									#21
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The maps are up again, here (didn't change anything yet):
** Download World Maps **

[This message has been edited by Mercator (edited November 01, 1999).]

	08-11-1999 00:39									#22
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Where has everyone gone to? Tecumseh where are you? Should I start work again on the maps? How exactly should the impassable borders be placed...

	08-11-1999 03:31									#23
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Sorry Mercator! I thought you were carrying on with the maps. I was going to email you to see how it was going. What do you need to decide before going on?

	08-11-1999 03:41									#24
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I'll defer to Mike Daumen on the placement of impassible terrain, but this is my take on it: As you move east on a map there should be a vertical row which overlaps with the next map to the east. This row would have transporters on it. The very next row to the east should consist of impassible terrain. That way a unit would have to go onto the next map (via transporters) and could not pass around to the west of the map they started on. Of course the same thing holds for units moving off the west edge of a map.

	08-11-1999 06:27									#25
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I guess my second reply to Mercator was lost in transmission. I'll leave the final word on the placement of the impassable terrain to Mike Daumen, but here's my take on it. As a unit moves east on a map it reaches a vertical row which overlaps the next map to the east. On this row is placed transporters which take the unit to the next map. On the next row to the east is where the impassable terrain goes, so that the unit moving east can't move around to the west side of the map it was on in the first place. Of course the same thing must be done in reverse for units moving to the west. I hope that makes sense.

	08-11-1999 06:30									#26
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Then again, maybe it wasn't lost in transmission!

	09-11-1999 15:23									#27
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If you sent it to jorrit@sidgames.com it was lost. Due to some problems at SidGames I can't reach that e-mail address (I don't know if that e-mail address actually exists right now). So if there's anything you want to tell me, please send it to jorrit_v@hotmail.com.

I know (mostly) how the transporting thing works, but I need to know the exact locations. Michael Daumen was saying the impassible parts didn't have to be exactly on top of eachother... And do you only need one vertical row for the impassible borders? Can't units move through the gaps in between then?
I think I might have to redraw the maps to let the overlapping be more precise, the easternmost column of the map is not exactly the same part as the westernmost column in the 'adjacent' map now, it's very close to it, though. But maybe this is good enough.

	09-11-1999 18:10									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

The impassable terrain has to be over two spaces for every new map. I expect the easiest thing to do is to place the barrier in the middle of the first map and then move the barrier west two spaces on each successive map).

The biggest problem is linking everything back around to the first map. The last map can only be as wide as the sum of the overlapping spaces of the previous maps (or else the last map will overshoot the first map's barrier. Thus the project might be better as a three map deal using only a small bit of the fourth map to link the first and third maps.

Confused? I'll try to make a schematic and post it (but it would be easier for me if you email me a fax no. and I send you my handwritten drawing).
[This message has been edited by Michael Daumen (edited November 09, 1999).]

	12-11-1999 03:25									#29
	Put an end to popups!

WOW THIS IS FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!! I've been dying for this. Please keep up the great work. I'm not exactly sure how to link them all in a regular game though. Would it have to be a scnario? The maps look great

	17-11-1999 16:10									#30
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Sorry Mike, I don't have a fax.