27-01-2000 16:13									#1
	Gender Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I just wondered.

I finally managed to get the Undersea world up and running, by the way, thanks to John and Toby.

Ramoth
[This message has been edited by Ramoth (edited January 30, 2000).]

	28-01-2000 10:33									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Your not the only female civ player in the world. I know several women who play but none of them feel the need to post in forums about it.

Even if you were the only women, would that be so bad? The idea of being the only man in a hobby full of women sounds like a nice idea to me. Heck, maybe I'll give up Civ and take up needle-point or something.

	28-01-2000 10:47									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Actually William, being the only woman in a discipline populated entirely by men is bad. The various apsects of communication adopted by any all-male society tend to drive most women away. For example, the fact that there are only a few women at the highest levels of chess play is probably mostly the result of many women not feeling comfortable in the overwhelmingly male chess society; this greatly limits the pool of talent.

I know of a female harvard student who is an avid civ2 player and (I believe) does not post.

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

	28-01-2000 10:49									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

Ramoth: You're in good company. Two of the three writers who created the manuals for Civ II, Civ II MPGE, and Test of Time (I merely edited) are female, and one of them is a better Civ player than I'll probably ever be. She tends toward the diplomatic win, too.

William: Try candy making, with chocolate. Ever since I learned how to make chocolate mousse and truffles from scratch, well...

	28-01-2000 13:58									#5
	Remove this text

Shouldn't I be posting then? If it's going to upset people, I'll stop. Sorry to bother you.

Ramoth
[This message has been edited by Ramoth (edited January 28, 2000).]

	28-01-2000 15:57									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

Ramoth,

I think Toby was being conversational - of course, we'd love you to participate in the forums! By 'bad', I understand he meant 'difficult', not 'unwanted'.

	30-01-2000 20:45									#7
	Support Apolyton

I want to apologize a great deal for my use of "bad", that was a very thoughtless sentence.

Here's what I wrote:
Actually William, being the only woman in a discipline populated entirely by men is bad.

And here's what I meant:
Societies that are almost all male tend to be uncomfortable places for many women. They find it much more comfortable if they are not the only chess player, civ player, whatever, in the group. It's a mistake to assume that anyone will of course find it advantageous to be the only one of their sex in a group.

And I should also have mentioned that there have always been people who indeed enjoy being the only X, and that's fine.
Sorry, sorry, sorry!

And Cam, thank you for being so polite in your reponse to me.

- toby



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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

	31-01-2000 04:50									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I really love how women use these little tricks to get attention in online forums.

"well if you donlt like me posting here I'll just go somewhere else"

and all the males reply "sorry sorry sorry"

jeeze, sexism at it's best. what I like about the online world is that race, and sex and age dont exist, unless you flaunt it. and then why?

you choose how other onlineophiles see you, by how you post and the language you use. I think that's right and proper. I bet there ar tons of women, homosexuals, disabled persons, bigots, and whatever else who are posting on these forums who do not need to wear these labels on their sleeves.

every now and then you get a female poster who has to make such a big issue over her gender than it makes me wonder what her motives are.