21-05-2001 09:17									#1
	Tech Tree Stupidity!!! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Boy am I pissed off! We're in a tribe game and I'm about to build a wonder.
I had a new line up of techs to start researching with my choice being invented that very turn and I had 3 possible techs with wonders supposedly coming up. I wanted to build A Smith, so did economics show up as an option? Nah,I get stuck with the 3rd wonder on my wish list. This is BS!
If you have the pre-reqs, the tech should be a stinking option!!!

For what it's worth, I'm posting this in the civ complaints forum, such a simple bug should have been fixed long ago (and if this BS is by design, Sid Meier can go to hell!)

	21-05-2001 09:37									#2
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Hopefully many things will be addressed in III. Many things.

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	21-05-2001 10:46									#3
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Bez - I remember, a year or so ago, there was much debate about what dictated which techs were offered. I don't think anyone ever came up with a definitive answer. I often have the prerequisites for a particular tech and don't get offered it. Maybe someone has discovered an answer in the intervening year or so.

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	21-05-2001 16:21									#4
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must be a bug as it goes agaisnt all manuals and tech tree graphs

	21-05-2001 17:15									#5
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Many times I don't get chance at Monarchy, when it should be available.
That's what sticks in my mind the most.

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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
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ICQ 51553293

	21-05-2001 17:29									#6
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A good thing about games being loaded as scenarios (when you eliminate host techs for example) is that your choice of techs is not limited.

	21-05-2001 17:59									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I don't mind that they're all not available if you have the prereqs. But I wish it was random and not based on a formula.

So what wonder did you get stuck with Berz?

Rich

	21-05-2001 18:58									#8
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I disagree... I think any tech you have all the prerequisites for should be available. But just one man's opinion. Since it does seem to follow certain patterns, I would guess that it isn't a bug, and was actually planned to work that way. It will be interesting to see what they do with CivIII.

And yeah, what wonder did you get stuck with

	21-05-2001 19:25									#9
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Eiffel Tower. Betcha.

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Mono Rules!
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	21-05-2001 20:19									#10
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Don't forget the four time periods of the tech tree - if you haven't yet discovered all ancient techs, you don't get the option of choosing many more modern ones. So even tho you have the prerequisites, you still haven't learned something else that moves your civ "ahead" in the time line. This prevents you from getting to industrialization before mysticism, or some such unrealistic result. Basically, you are forced to spread your research across several tech branches, slowing any huge advantage in one. It actually makes the game more realistic, albeit at the expense of your personal goal...

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	21-05-2001 20:55									#11
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Marquis de Sodaq...
I still disagree with the way it's done. Whose to say you have to figure everything out under another path before leaping ahead in something else.

The tech tree is very percise... You really can't afford to blow off any of the early sciences, because they all become the basis of something you will need later. The dead end tech paths don't really start hitting until middle development.

If you have the pre-req's, you should be able to develop the next science
(IMHO )

	21-05-2001 23:06									#12
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Hmmm... maybe someone should test out making all techs the same time period, to see if this is really what limits the options. And if it is, how the game plays without the limitation. It could get interesting - illiterate civs with bombers, atheistic tank drivers, a civ with only horsemen and nukes...

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-Philip of Macedon

	22-05-2001 08:39									#13
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What I hate even more is when Techs are taken off your availalbe chooses after you choose a different one. Many tme sI have had lot sof techs t ochoose from but then the next discovery i come baqck and suddenly olny a few , why is tihs

	22-05-2001 08:50									#14
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It has been figured out...sorta.....guess who....oedo!

see "oedo's unfinished" in strategy

	23-05-2001 00:42									#15
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In this same tribe game, I did not get the options that I would want either, though I expected it. It is the same every game. It is not random. If you get a tech other then a monarchy tech from a hut, you are going to need another tech to be able to get back on the right path. Strategically, it is far better to get it from a hut. You must slow down your tech rate through taxes, then ruthlessly uncover huts untill you get that next tech. Then turn the science rate up and go about getting monarchy techs. The disaster happens when you get no choice for monarchy techs and have to chose another tech, and while you research it, you then find another tech from a hut and it burries you even farther behind.
Equally important, if you continue to open huts, everyone can screw up your tech path, so you are gambling. I prefer to stop the gambling at a point till I start researching monarchy.
However, if you hold off and the other guy gets citys and units, what good is a good tech path because you already lost.
Hopefully, the civ3 designers will see this early game flaw as a game ending problem and fix it.

	23-05-2001 03:33									#16
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What is the bottom line of your magnificient strategy?
I'm a simple guy, nothing on your level, so can you be more succinct?
Delay on Monarchy, so you can open huts, or avoid huts until after Monarchy ?
I know it's got to be one of those two.
I puzzled it out that far.

Berzerker, I hope to hell you're writing this information down.
Maybe we can all improve, if we try to be more like Strat.

Last edited by SlowwHand on 23-05-2001 at 03:39

	23-05-2001 07:39									#17
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Just cant understand why the designers would design that into the game, especially the bit where your choices are suddenly limited after you make a dsiscovery

	24-05-2001 10:33									#18
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Well i have been screwed by many a hut on the path to monarcy or going for something else. The bottom line is what you want to do, me i go for all the huts i can and if i get screwed i dont worry about it i try to keep my tech down and hopefully it will be offered the next time around. Hopefully these issues will be addressed in civ 3 but even if they arent what can you do

	28-05-2001 13:06									#19
	Tired of ads?

Rah, I got stuck with Isaac Newton's - not all that bad since the city building it was my capitol already with Colossus and Copernicus. But since this is a tribe game I don't expect that wonder to help as much as A Smith's.

Markus said that some techs require a second "pre-req" not specifically on the tree (or something like that). He can explain it better than me.

As for seeing a tech you passed up for a couple turns disappear, I think all techs not chosen for 2 turns must go off the list. But the path to Monarchy best exemplifies this problem. There is no logical reason why sometimes you can make a straight shot for Monarchy while other times you get stuck researching 1 or even 2 techs off that tree. But I have played a number of mp hotseat games and noticed that nearly all the civs end up with the same pattern.

	29-05-2001 04:13									#20
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Gee getting stuck with that in your SSC, things could be worse

If it's a tribe game, I'm sure there will be enough caravans to make up the cash difference.

Again, it adds spice to the game, but it should be random and not predetermined.

RAH

	30-05-2001 11:22									#21
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tonight i ran into the same problem.... i couldnt' research invention for three tech choices..... However i did effectively take mikes theos and leos.... not too mention i was about to build SOL.....

But i almost didnt make it to mono first because of my delay. Then again you could say that i got to mono and leos first becasue of the "not wanted " delay to invention

Depending on what you select, your given options..... nothing worse than 7 choices one turn and 1 choice the next

Civ is a strange game ........

	30-05-2001 14:05									#22
	Put an end to popups!

I suffer from much Tech Tree Stupidity but I am getting better.

	30-05-2001 17:45									#23
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War4ever, as far as I'm concerned, your example is the best reason for not making all available. It makes you think, and make you have to modify a stratagy as you play. The alternative is the mindlless robot moving through the tech tree. Any moron could do that. And in your case, you seem to have made the right decisions when you got pimped.

But again, I wish it was random and it wouldn't pimp you two selections in a row.

The other night, I had the prereqs for around 12 techs, and was only offered one tech to research, map making. Oh well.

RAH

	30-05-2001 18:54									#24
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Rah i see your point...... but in large player games it becomes a real problem. I don't like randomness..... i like a hardlined pattern. However as much as i hate taking five techs to monarchy.... its better than people researching too far up one tech line....

it does add some fun to the game especially on icq phone when you hear the other lad ranting about his ****ty tech choices

	30-05-2001 19:37									#25
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In a large player game it's even more fun. If everyone had to take an extra tech, which ones did they take? Will they take advantage of the extra tech or spend their time whining about it. It makes every game different. But I do wish you couldn't get pimped twice in a row. That would minimize the disadvantage.

You of all people, I didn't expect to fall in the mindless robot camp.

Rich
Always fun yanking your chain.

	31-05-2001 04:51									#26
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Robot...... i doubt it.... we have played too many times and each game is different ... u know this....check the saves....... as for being screwed twice or three times in a row...... its killer in close games but makes no difference in games where one has the lead which i generally find myself in