29-10-1999 02:10									#1
	Curious about research path to monarchy Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Has anyone ever been able to make monarchy the 4th science when starting with no techs? Has anyone ever NOT gotten monarchy as the 5th choice after choosing one of the 3 prerequisites at each opportunity? Assume no advances from huts in responding to this.

I know there was discussion in a thread a while ago about whether there was a way to figure out what your choices would be, but I don't think anyone offered a definitive answer.

	29-10-1999 02:43									#2
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Ah my favorite subject.
Yes.You will need alpha,burial and laws.Monarchy should be offered as 4th tech.
Once in blue moon you only need laws and burial.Don't have clue why though.

Yes I have had to research as many as 6 techs before it was offered.Again I have no clue why.

I have spent much time trying to figure this out and just when I think I have it figured out something "random" happens and its' back to square one.

	29-10-1999 03:13									#3
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Yeah, I think that's another case of using a random number generator. I guess the non-appearance of the next logical tech in the tree is a play balance issue. For those of us that concentrate on arrows, it would be too easy to get all of the desired advances against the AI.

It is very frustrating in the late game of total warfare, when advances come every 3 turns, you are counting on moving up the tree in 12 turns to get the needed tech and you have detour for something stupid like refrig or atomic theory.

	29-10-1999 03:39									#4
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Smash - you always get monarchy fourth? It never happens that way for me. I always run into the situation Bird is referencing: Alpha, Laws, Burial, X (writing or bronze for me), Monarchy.

(BTW Bird - I made an embarrassing mistake related to this thread in our game tuesday, which is crippling me from the horror.)


[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited October 28, 1999).]

	29-10-1999 04:57									#5
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I think the techs offered are *not* random, but I don't have the patience to sit down and figure out the pattern. In my (ahem) novice days, I tried reloading an earlier save because I wasn't offered a key tech. If I followed the same path, I always ended up with the same tech offerings. If I did something different, the techs could change.

If you do any hut hunting, it's hard to stay with a fixed pattern because a hut tech can change everything. Anyway, I go Horseback, Alpha, X (sometimes), Laws, Burial, X, Monarchy. Free starting techs, huts, or trade may mean I can bypass the wasted steps.

	29-10-1999 04:59									#6
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I've played thousands of games, and I have NEVER seen Monarchy fourth. NEVER! Maybe I need to reload a bugged version of the game

The fifth choice is the earliest I have ever seen it with no sciences to begin with, and nothing from a goody hut or other civ.

	29-10-1999 06:30									#7
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DaveV: You're right, it's not random but there is some sort of algorithm that 'removes' certain techs from the list just to hold you back a little.

In my last three games that I logged, the researching went like this:

1. Alphabet, Bronze, Code of Laws, [hut Burial], Monarchy
2. [Alphabet, Bronze at start] Horseback, Code of Laws, Burial, Monarchy
3. [Alphabet, Horseback] Code of Laws, Writing, Burial, [huts gave 5], Polytheism, Monarchy

Ming: You maybe right, each of these don't meet your conditions. Maybe it depends upon the level one plays?

	29-10-1999 07:04									#8
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I don't get anything consistantly in this game.I have gotten it as 4th choice but it is not the always the same.I've gotten it offered once for the 3rd choice.I've started with alpha, laws and burial and kicked it over in my first hut.I also recall being so bogged down by other techs that it was 20+ research turns for it.

my earliest monarchys have been with orange,England in particular.Probably a coincidence

	29-10-1999 07:39									#9
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Something has to vary, obviously, because although most people claim the limit is 4, others have skipped a tech to the road to monarchy.

	29-10-1999 10:19									#10
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Smash: it is not possible to get it as a 3rd choice if you don't start with any techs b/c it has 3 techs (alphabet, ceremonial burial and code of laws) as a prerequisite. So forget about those times when you had ANY sciences to start.

Ming, and anyone else for that matter: Have you EVER started with NO techs and NOT gotten monarchy as the FIFTH choice, ASSUMING you always chose one of the three prerequisites along the way? Sorry for the emphasis, but I'm really not interested in variations that might arise because of goody huts and the like. They may be relevant, but not until we establish the foundation.

Again, I apologize for the emphasis. I've had a few too many tonight.

	29-10-1999 11:02									#11
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it may not be possible but it did happen once.In MP.I never host so no start techs for me.Don't ask me how or why cause I don't know.It just did.This can be a strange game.

	30-10-1999 06:52									#12
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I usually start with ceremonial burial, but I think monarchy mostly takes an extra tech. I'll have to keep track.

	31-10-1999 05:27									#13
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I used to sometimes get it 4th in single player games. But I think that had to do with what the AI was getting in startup techs. I have never gotten it earlier than 5th in MP. (discounting all free techs as the host)

RAH

	11-11-1999 23:40									#14
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I always have gotten Monarchy as my fifth tech, at least since I stopped trying to get the pyramids first a couple of years ago... In an MP game last evening with some dubious characters I found a four trade special capital city after just 3 moves or so, 2x whales, 2x gems. I thought "whoo hoo" Monarchy first! I split the specials between two cities and got all four working quickly with 60% sci allocation. I researched my "A" list which usually goes Alpha, Laws, Burial, (Writ/Horse/Bronze) and then always Monarchy. Not yesterday! I picked up bronze from a hut while researching Laws, and I thought, okay, I'll be close to having Monarchy first. Strategically, maybe it is better to get it second anyway so as not to draw attention. But NOOOOOO, it doesn't come up fifth. I take horsemanship. It doesn't come up sixth I take Poly, it finally shows up in seventh and I am pissed! So did the computer penalize me for picking up a hut before Monarchy or having too many trade specials? Or playing as the Babylonians? Or was it just the evil host???

	12-11-1999 00:47									#15
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HA HA HA HA HA HA

Last night in the same game...
Took Alpha... Took cermonial... got pottery from hut... ally gives me cermonial.. pick code... give code to ally ... take monarchy... ally gives me monarchy.. monarchy the next turn!

Take that SS! (I wondered how we beat you to monarchy )
(

	12-11-1999 01:06									#16
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The only way of having Monarchy as a fourth advance is playing chiefthain.

i always research Bronze Working/C. Burial, writing/code of laws/Monarchy

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	12-11-1999 03:11									#17
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Yea, that really sucks, all those specials, all those free advances, all those pretty dancing girls........

At least your second settler didn't get killed. Of course, neither did mine.

	12-11-1999 04:35									#18
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Bird...
So true... So true... That was a little unlucky for rah. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Thanks for monarchy last nite ally
Hope to be partners with you again sometime in the future.

	12-11-1999 23:30									#19
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Let's just say that when I sent the marketing messege (if everyone is quiet on the chat, somebody is a King...) and saw that you guys were both in Monarchy, I assumed you were allied and the race to MC was over for me. Knowing that RAH was down a settler and would probably stuggle for a bit; and with geographic deadends in my area and no sign of Makeo or winzity at the time I knew it was going to be a long, cold evening!

I owe Makeo some cash - thx! btw: perhaps I could be considered an honorary Aussie for, in one calendar year, watching the Aussie rules final (LL), the Cricket WC final, the Rugby WC final, and going to an Australia/US soccer friendly.
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited November 12, 1999).]

	14-11-1999 07:49									#20
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You are henceforth anointed an honorary Bruce. Arise, Bruce.

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finbar

Mono Rules!