12-11-1999 11:02									#1
	Civ2 strategies II Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Okay, I've been thinking recently, about ways to really beat the CPU. For one, a navy is NOT necessary to winning the game! The AI can't lauch an amphibious assault worth crap. So, the main strategy then, would be to focus on a land army. One of the things I sometimes find most difficult is taking over a city with city walls, especially before the discovery of armor. I think the only way to accomplish this, then, is to use OVERWHELMING force. I can't stress this enough. As well, proper siege tactics are a must to attain one's goals. One's attack force should consist of......

5-7 cavalry/dragoons
8-9 artillery/cannons

Now the deal here is to secure the immediate terrain around the city, providing safe operational room for your big guns. Use your cavalry/dragoons to destroy any units that may be within the city perimeter. Afterwards, have your big guns surround the city (at least one terrain square away) but within the protective perimeter of your mobile units. The job of your mobile units, now, is to make sure NO enemy units from other cities reinforce the garrison or inflict any damage on your fragile artillery/cannon pieces.
Having achieved this, on one turn, have every square around the city occupied by one of your guns. Thus all 8 squares should have an artillery or cannon unit. I can't stress how important it is to make sure this is done in ONE turn. Then let the CPU do his thing against your guns. You usually lose about 2-4 guns but that's about it. That's leaves you with about 5 guns to punish the city garrison with. Believe me, the AI won't stand a chance against such a pounding. And since all of your resources are focused on your army (Not the NAVY) losses are MORE than affordable.

If you wish to launch a trans-continental invasion, things do get risky but it can be done without a solid navy. What it involves is building a core amount of transports to carry the bulk of your troops. After you have those built, build a number of "decoy" transports. About 4-5 will do. When everything is set up, have your decoys always screen in front of your troop carriers. Their job is to spot potential threats and draw them away from your vulnerable troops. One does tend to incur heavy losses now and then in terms of transports but it's MUCH cheaper than building a fleet of Battleships and AEGIS cruisers to protect a couple of transports. A much better gamble in the end game anyways.

Oh, don't ever build marines. EVER. They are totally useless. Their the poor man's version of the tank. Honestly, it doesn't pay to launch amphibious assaults. Just use 8 tanks, land them beside the city and use their two movement points to pummel the helpless defenders. Higher attack value PLUS an extra hitpoint. A better bet on any day of the week.

I'll write my next segment later this week. In it, I'll cover the best governments with which to run your empire and as well, which techs to persue with extreme prejudice. I'll also provide beelines to help you discover these techs faster.

	12-11-1999 13:30									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

There is a forum called "Civ2 Strategy" to which this topic obviously should be moved.

	12-11-1999 15:24									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Hey Ming you changed your name to Narck?! Oh wait - your not Ming, and not moderator... hmm..., OT - I thought we could post whatever we like here???

oh well. anyway - to continue...

'Having achieved this, on one turn, have every square around the city occupied by one of
your guns. Thus all 8 squares should have an artillery or cannon unit. I can't stress how
important it is to make sure this is done in ONE turn. Then let the CPU do his thing against
your guns. You usually lose about 2-4 guns but that's about it.'

??? thats a lot to lose. why not just pre work a settler, make an instand fort, move troops in (same turn). next turn take the city. all too easy. marines are cool! best icon in the game. if you have marines before the AI (and you should), you can destroy a civ in no time. Cheaper than tanks also.

	12-11-1999 15:31									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

MWHC: you are absolutely WRONG.

We can post in off topic whatever does not belong in the on topic forums (i.e. general material, but not on-topic civ2 strategy!!!). And then only stuff that doesn't go against the rules of the off topic policy.

If I would have been moderator I would have moved the thread immediately. As I am not, I merely state that this thread SHOULD be moved.

Narck

	12-11-1999 15:40									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I'll talk about this here if I like. With all the crap there is on this OT forum, this thread is no big deal. The day Ming bans me for talking about CIV in OT is the last day I visit this site.

	12-11-1999 15:51									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ah, but I don't think one should be banned for posting or replying to this topic.

That would be too much. But I do think the topic should be moved

	12-11-1999 15:56									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I guess it could be moved... I guess someone could just start another one.

	12-11-1999 16:00									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

Sure, someone could.

But if the originator of the thread would start a similar thread after the first one was moved, then you do qualify for a vacation in my opinion.

What's the problem here anyway? Off Topic wasn't created for civ2 strategy talk, it was created for off topic chat. There is a forum called civ2 strategy. Come on, why not use that one?

	12-11-1999 16:30									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The civ2 strategy forum was created for that. The OT was created for anything you want to talk about. If apolyton moves this thread than does that mean ANY thread that contains CIV info has to be moved? I'll discuss whatever I like here. If someone does not like the topic than I suggest you move on and not mess up a thread.

	12-11-1999 16:37									#10
	Suffering from ads?

As I understand it, the off topic wasn't created for anything you want to talk about. It was created for anything else that you want to talk about (other than the subjects already covered by the on-topic forums).

You're also participating in the messing up of the thread btw.

	12-11-1999 20:16									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Glad to see that this has been moved back to strategy forum. Vs human or Vs computer, the best way to assault (pre-spy, pre-howitzer) is carpet bombing. A city captured without air superiority can be got back by fighter cleaning up ways for the mobile force then bribe by diplomats. Poof. Instant army for the defender! The one move assualt unit like cannon is mostly for repelling ground unit assualt. They are just too slow for attacking. Mobile units are best used as interdiction and assualt before air units arrived. Once you moved units to pillage the roads two squares from a city, diplomats won't be able to steal your landlocked city back unless you use the 'move engineer then build road' tactics.
As a side issue, SixArmedMan (SAM?)'s strategy may be viable in a no diplomat, no spy game.
[This message has been edited by mingko (edited November 13, 1999).]

	12-11-1999 20:21									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

I would like some clarity on this subject now. Are we really allowed to post this kind of stuff on the off topic?

	13-11-1999 02:15									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I wouldn't put it as "allowed" and "nor allowed"
It's "supposed" and "not supposed"

You're supposed to post about civ2 strategy matters in the civ2 strategy forum, and topics which are not covered by any of the forums in the off-topic

An off-topic thread in the civ2 strategy will be moved here, and vice versa

this isn't an issue of free speech, this is an issue of having an order in the forums and not mixing discussions. people who visit the civ2 strategy expect to see civ2 strategy discussions and the same goes for all forums including the OT

and to respond directly to MWHC "The OT was created for anything you want to talk about", the OT was created so that on-topic forums dont off-topic threads. I dont see why we should do the opposite...

this thread moved to civ2 strategy

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Markos, Apolyton Civilization Site

	13-11-1999 04:55									#14
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

LOL.Actually,aside from the original post and MWHC's pre worked settler this is all off topic.Maybe another move is in order

	13-11-1999 05:41									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Perhaps it needs to be split with on topic replies sent here and OT replies sent to OT! LoL.

I do think that 6aMan needs to refine his strat a little bit, though. Maybe we should take a poll on OT to see if suggestions should incorporate racism, creationism, banning Ming or US vs EU rants???

6aMan - I noticed in your thread to MarkG that you said no one posts in the strategy folder... seems like we get about 30 a day, and AH even stops by once in a while!

Here is what I would recommend to refine your land attack style. I am usually wrong on about 50% of what I recommend so take it with a grain of salt...

a) After railroad...take engineers with you when you attack a new continent. Use one to build a coastal city that connects to the AI's rail network and land all of your ships there. Preferably have that city within a one turn move from your transports so that you never need escorts. With strategically placed railroads and ports you can move those artilery pieces from production to battle field in one turn without using any movement points.

b) take partizens, or alpines with you to block city squares without roads if you want to cover them all to prevent guerillas.

c) on a related topic take spies or partizens with you to move through ZOC that you may need to block out squares.

d) don't worry about enemy units inside the city radius, once you kick the city, those units will either disappear or become your units!

e) in the cannon and pre railroad era, MWHC's technique of building an adjoining fortress with settlers or engineers and stacking all of your units in there is the best way to go by far. If you have a preworked fortress (or even a vet alpine on a hill while the fort is being built) you can attack with impunity from counter attacks while you are massing. My personal favorite is landing on a mountain from the water and building your port there (takes two turns, but makes a helluva forward base)

f) ALWAYS attack walled cities with artilery type pieces, tanks don't ignore city walls and are very expense fodder. Also using a dip to tear down the walls seems silly to me when you are going to be in possesion of the city at the end of the turn and having walls becomes a good thing.

g) Use a dip or spy to investigate a city to see how many difficult defenders are in position. Use artilery on those; use other stuff to take out dips, caravans, cruise missles, bombers, etc.

Note: I totally agree on not building Marines, though MWHC posted a while back that attacking with them and then withdrawing the injured in the transport to the cover of a capital ship made a lot of sense to me. I also never build big navies, unless I need to cross twenty squares of ocean to the nearest land and when does that ever happen??

	13-11-1999 05:51									#16
	Support Apolyton

OK, I'll step into this pile and see what sticks. I think there is just one minor change SixArmedMan could make that would be appropriate. That would be to pose his valid points as a question or debate, not as an authoritative segment, IMVHO of course. Anyway, I take one significant exception to his views: not a single mention of spies, the most powerful land unit in assualting a city.

	13-11-1999 05:57									#17
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Sten replied at the same time I did, listen to him, that's why I nominated him in the apolytoner contest (with absolutely no disrespect to all of the other great posters here). However, he had to mention 'AH'. I stumbled into OT one day and got sick reading that stuff, especially from AH

	13-11-1999 06:03									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Steve Clark -

I should go nominate you since you had to read an AH thread!


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anyone lived in a pretty how town
with up so floating many bells down

	13-11-1999 06:19									#19
	Tired of ads?

Great to see we're back to Civ II strategies.

Paradroppable howitzers all the way. Nothing can withstand your artillery division if it can be moved by aircraft.

LONG LIVE THE SOVIETS

	16-11-1999 23:10									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

why is the thread called Civ2 strategies II?

	17-11-1999 01:23									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

He posted nr 1 in the right forum a long time ago?