01-03-2000 10:22									#1
	frequent crashes & poor performance Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I can't believe I don't see more complaints here. For the 3rd night in a row I've had the 1.2B Patch crash when I try to save the game I'm playing. Also, whenever I have "space" on the display (instead of earth), my system goes to sleep (5 sec delay at keypresses).

Is anyone else seeing these problems? (I have a 300 MHz G3, 256 Mb RAM). Compared to Civ II, this programming stinks.

Tom

	01-03-2000 11:28									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I haven't had any problems up to this point, but I've noticed that others have experienced difficulties with CTP. You may have already tried this, but I recommend that you reinstall CTP and then update the new installalation with the 1.2b patch. I've heard that this clears up some of the problems that others have been having. Worth a try at least.

	01-03-2000 15:05									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'll second that - i have had to re-install the game several times now to ensure i have a "clean system".

You can easily move your saved games to a safe area during this.

	02-03-2000 02:04									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I have tried reloading the software already. I've even tried both OS 8.5.1 and OS 9.0 (I have 2 HDDs and can alter OS easily). It appears to be a bit more stable with OS 8.5.1 than OS 9 (when trying to save) but both OSs are extremely slow when looking at cities/units in space.

What did you do different at load time in order to get it to work?

	02-03-2000 02:23									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I did the full install off of the CD. I'm not at home right now, so I can't check what the install options were. I gave the application 150MB. With 256MB, you should have plenty of RAM to do that. If not, allocate enough VM to cover you. As has been mentioned before, CTP's memory requirements grow as you get into the later stages of the game. So giving it plenty of memory is often necessary to save without problems.

	02-03-2000 03:21									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'll probably try an install again tonight. I originally did the reinstall to see if there was an option to do a full install and not have to load the CD everytime I want to play.

I have already allocated 128 Mb of RAM to the game. I figured if it wants 75, that should be more than adequate.

	04-03-2000 20:04									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I have 96MB physical RAM. With 150 MB preferred size for the game and 192MB VM I have no more problems.

Dani
[This message has been edited by Dani (edited March 04, 2000).]

	07-03-2000 10:07									#8
	Support Apolyton

I've about given up on the game. I've reloaded, I've tried OS 8.5.1 and OS 9, I've turned off all but the absolute minimum extensions and nothing helps. The game is extremely slow and I get Type 2 crashes with distressing regularity.

Has anyone else had these problems? I have a 300 MHz G3 with 256 Mb RAM (allocate up to 175 to CtP). OS does not seem to help much, although OS 8.5.1 appears a bit more stable.

Tom

	07-03-2000 13:51									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Just for reference here's my system:

B&W G3 400, 256MB, 8.6, Voodoo3 2000,
Intellimouse Explorer

150 Megs allocated to CTP
VM on but only set to 1MB
1.2b patch applied.

I've had no problems with this setup.

Ash

	08-03-2000 10:30									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

tomllama -- haven't had any crashing problems myself, but I *have* noted an extreme slowdown
with space toggled on ( framerate drops to
one every 5 seconds, like you.)

It's not the CPU (433 Mhz G3, OC'd) which
leaves as the cuplrit the combination of
1) the instructions CTP issues for the
hazy masking of the ground level, and 2)
graphics hardware and drivers (I'm still
using the Rage Pro chipset that came with
my beige G3.) It's as if, with space toggled
on, some slew of graphics instructions are
being implemented in software that MacSoft
assumed would be implemented in hardware.

What graphics board/chipset do you have?
I'd ask the same question of those w/o
problems ( I see Ashman has a Voodoo 3..)


At least this has given me a reason to buy
some kind of card.

	08-03-2000 21:08									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hi!

I forgot to tell that I also have applied the 1.2b patch and am running MacOS 8.6.
With enough virtual memory an the increased size of preferred memory I encountered not one single problem.
My Computer is a 233 Desktop G3 (beige).

Greetings from Dani

	09-03-2000 10:41									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Dani -- what screen size are you using?

Under CTP's graphics options, I changed
my screen size from 1024x768
to 800x600 and voila, CTP was
tolerable with space toggled on.

Actually, it's much more responsive overall.
I hadn't noticed it before, but under
1024x768, even with space toggled off,
the map square highlight slightly lags
the cursor.

Of course, CTP looks kind of clunky at
800x600.

I like CTP, but for a turn-based
strategy game it really is a pig,
with the same system requirements as
a first-person shooter.

This space slowdown is highly annoying,
and is my only real issue with the game.
(There are others -- like no music at all,
but that's probably not MacSoft's fault
since I'm using a highly non-standard
Kenwood 72x CDROM.)

	09-03-2000 00:55									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hi tauzero!

1152x870 with 16,7 Millions of colours.
For me it is essential to have a huge amount of virtual memory. BTW: I played the game with regular and huge maps (I think that this is also factor one should calculate in).
Before I patched with 1.2b I had just 96MB VM but had put the preferred size to 150MB. But then I was told that it makes sense to set the VM to at least twice of the amount of physical RAM. And before I encountered the "low on memory" bug only after having built the GlobeSat. That was astonishing for me for I think all the places where the others are must be stored somewhere whether I can see them or not.

The game is a bit slower with the large amount of VM, but it is stable on my system.

Many greetings from Dani

P.S: I have 4MB Video RAM (that is not standard for this machine, I added 2MB).
About the graphic board I do not know anything. ATI Rage somehow, I think. (Where does the system profiler tell me?)

And another P.P.S: I noticed that I not only have the german Control panel "Monitore und Ton" (V 1.5) but since CTP also the english version "Monitors and Sound".(V 1.4.2) Does the installer install this even when there is a localized version already present?
[This message has been edited by Dani (edited March 08, 2000).]

	10-03-2000 00:39									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Tom...

Don't give up! I had tons of trouble (ask Baston) at first, but persevered through it all.

And look at my system!
Power Computing PowerCenter w/250Mhz G3 upgrade
Mac OS 8.1
56 MB Real RAM w/120 MB Virtual RAM

And I don't have any crashes any more!

Once you get the problems solved (which I hope you do, though I can't offer any suggestions except for more RAM), it'll be worth it.

Finrod

	10-03-2000 10:34									#15
	Support Apolyton

I have the standard RagePro graphics. I have the screen set to 1024x768. I've had VM on and off. The only game I've played was a "huge" one.

I could live with an occasional crash if the game had any response. The 5 sec per keypress is the most anoying part, but overall response is poor too. Why should I wait 15 sec for a piece to move across the board? The control panel in the game totally ignors attempts to change unit speed.

I'll try resolution, but how have others solved their problems? (BTW, I also installed the patch and that's when the crashes at save started. Slow response was unchanged.) Also does anyone else get annoyed that the damn startup screens switch to low resolution and mess up desktop placements (when it switches to 640x480 to try and load the intro video)?

	20-03-2000 03:57									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm not sure what my settings are, but I have no problems with a 350Mhz G4 running under system 9.0 and with 192MB RAM. I am not using VM as I have no need for it and it tends to slow down the machine. Yes, many recommend the 1MB trick, but that shouldn't increase speed as I understand, but lower the RAM required for applications.

As a whole, the game tends to slow down with larger maps or more civilizations in the game. Right now I generally play with huge maps and 12 civs (13 including Barbarians). At this setting, speed is relatively slow, but yet acceptable. I'm not sure how it'd be in later stages of the game as I haven't played as much since I started looking through the various text files that are used to set up teh game rules.

If you have problems with speed or memory related crashes I would recommend using smaller maps or less civilizations. Screen resolution should also help (color I believe is not an option for CTP). I run at 1024x768 at millions of colours (but the G4 comes with a great graphics card unlike my G3). Wish I could test the game on my G3 (233Mhz original G3 desktop with no hardware improvements other then some RAM) to compare, but it's sitting on the wrong side of the Atlantic right now.