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TheThirdJesus
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LA, CA, USA
Feb 2000
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Baston on 03-21-2000 10:48 AM
I have begun definitive work on a total pack for the Mac players of CTP.
This will include all the patches (official) and all important mod's that can run on the pc or mac. These presently include the following:
Ancient Civ's
Age of Enlightenment
4000 AD
Improvement Mod (inc. 400 AD)
Civ2 Diplomatic Photo Pack to CTP
Harlans Graphic Mod
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I'd suggest we also include CD's mod and awesome AIPs (these two are an awesome combo, it makes the game much better). I'd also suggest TP's powerslic.
The other mods seem fine to me, but I don't think the improvement mod is a good idea. Awesome AIPs + CD's mod + 4000ad does all the things improvement mod does except much better.
As mention in my recent thread (Is the Dutcheese PBeM quickstart lacking?) I wanted to edit Dutcheese PBeM, so that's another thing I'd want to add (either the edited dutcheese or an alternative hand crafter by us).
quote:
These are all relatively straightforward so i dont need help on them.
Already Done:
Apolyton Pack (Nice work TTJ!)
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The apolyton pack is nice, but since it's rather awkward and annoying on mac (since we don't have a 1.21), it'd be better to just include the individual pieces of the apolyton pack (CD's mod, TP's powerslic, etc).
quote:
Dutcheese Pack
Would like to add:
Celestial Dawns mods
a version of the 1.21 hack (TTJ did you do this?)
Nordicu's new trade items pack
Any help on these last three would be appreciated. I will release it when complete onto the apolyton server.
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Cd's mod works of course, so does awesome AIPs.
The 1.21 hack can not be used on mac, I can't think of anyway it'd be even possible. We're stuck with the scenario loading bug from what I can tell... 
As for this nordicus trade items pack, this is very cool and I haven't tryed it yet. I'm sure it would work though. I'm a little worried that it might unbalence things (either by putting in too many goods or making monopolys too hard to get).
Are you planing on making this a pack like the apolyton pack? Where you install one thing get access to almost a dozen mods? Or did you have something else in mind?
Well get back to me as soon as you can, this sounds like a very cool project.
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"God. Root. What is difference?" - www.userfriendly.org
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Baston
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Woking, Surrey, UK
Jan 2000
time: 05:14
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What do we want?
Well, i am in agreement with you TheThirdJesus. The "Mac CTP Total Pack" will incorporate the following:
* Firstly it will be more of an "optional" installer (say using mindvision or similar), allowing you to choose what mod's / scenarios you want.
* This installer will not install all mods more so give you a choice. I had wanted people to choose maybe the light mod of 4000 AD than also be forced to install the Awesome AIP's as well. This is the choice i would have liked and i think (personally) so would everyone else.
* It will therefore contain the following:
Minor mod's; Such as 4000 AD, Improvement, Ancient Civs, Age of Enlightement, etc.
Major Mod's; In accordance with possible 1.21 hack missing from Apolyton Pack, this will now be carved up a little. The Major mod's will therefore include. CD's Mod, TP's Powerslic, Awesome AIP's.
Made for Mac; Me and TTJ will co-work on a new dutcheese variant called something appropriate. See the other topic in the CTP Mac forum to follow this. A possible examination of the trade pack as well.
Anyone else want to amend/add to this?
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TheThirdJesus
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LA, CA, USA
Feb 2000
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Baston on 03-22-2000 05:19 AM
What do we want?
Well, i am in agreement with you TheThirdJesus. The "Mac CTP Total Pack" will incorporate the following:
* Firstly it will be more of an "optional" installer (say using mindvision or similar), allowing you to choose what mod's / scenarios you want.
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Sounds good, but do you know how much a licence for one of these installer makers cost? I haven't done too much research.
quote:
* This installer will not install all mods more so give you a choice. I had wanted people to choose maybe the light mod of 4000 AD than also be forced to install the Awesome AIP's as well. This is the choice i would have liked and i think (personally) so would everyone else.
* It will therefore contain the following:
Minor mod's; Such as 4000 AD, Improvement, Ancient Civs, Age of Enlightement, etc.
Major Mod's; In accordance with possible 1.21 hack missing from Apolyton Pack, this will now be carved up a little. The Major mod's will therefore include. CD's Mod, TP's Powerslic, Awesome AIP's.
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I don't see any problem with that.
quote:
Made for Mac; Me and TTJ will co-work on a new dutcheese variant called something appropriate. See the other topic in the CTP Mac forum to follow this. A possible examination of the trade pack as well.
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I'm going to spend some time today testing out the trade mod and seeing how easily dutcheese can be edited, I'll post when I have some more info.
[update]I just found a great way to get a free installer maker, http://www.mindvision.com/Pricing/shareware.asp
quote:
MindVision wants to encourage developers who need a leg up, and so we've established a program by which qualifying shareware and freeware developers can use Installer VISE for free. If you're just getting started by pouring your energies into your shareware or freeware products, read on.
1.
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[/update]
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"God. Root. What is difference?" - www.userfriendly.org
[This message has been edited by TheThirdJesus (edited March 22, 2000).]
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Baston
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Woking, Surrey, UK
Jan 2000
time: 05:14
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Excellent work third. I have already begun modification of some of the dutcheese pack in preparation. You might want to check out the modifications page off of the main mac ctp page for details as to "advanced" modification techniques. You are probably a little better than i, but combined i am sure we can complete the project quickly and effeciently.
I will check out the installer when i get home from work.
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Baston
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Woking, Surrey, UK
Jan 2000
time: 05:14
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Made for Mac might be an inappropriate name, as the files would likely be easily interchangeable.
Most PC Players, those heavily into PBeM gaming, appear to be keen on having the 1.21 hack, apolyton Pack, etc, etc. It's no wander they complain about the machine crashing all the time!
The Mac CTP PBeM community seems marginally smaller than the PC variant. Perhaps our Mod's could see widespread use?
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TheThirdJesus
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LA, CA, USA
Feb 2000
time: 05:14
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Well here's what I 've been doing...
Trade mod: This mod is neat, and presents some nice eye-candy, as well as some interesting game changes (the apple good really changes building in forests as the +10 food can easily give a starting city a strong boost in both production and food). The three objections I have are:
1. Scenario based... with no 1.21 hack, mac users are forced to use annoying work-arounds.
2. Not as much effect as I thought it would have. It really doesn't make that much of a difference if you're trading fish or pearls, some goods change the values of their terrain enough to make them interesting (like the apple's +10 food on forests).
3. Not compatible with awesome AIPs and non-apolyton pack CD's mod (possibly other mods)
I won't be using this mod regularly, but it's pretty cool anyway.
Editing dutcheese mod: Didn't do too much, but seems very possible. I'll post some more later.
quote:
Most PC Players, those heavily into PBeM gaming, appear to be keen on having the 1.21 hack, apolyton Pack, etc, etc. It's no wander they complain about the machine crashing all the time!
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I disagree, the fact is, Civ:CTP is a poorly done, buggy app... it never crashs on me anymore, but then again I have it set for 800megs of ram (700 of that is virtual memory  ). I don't know if you've tryed Cd's mod + apolyton pack + TP's powerslic yet, but it's likely if you try them now you'll never want to go back to unmoded single player games.
quote:
The Mac CTP PBeM community seems marginally smaller than the PC variant. Perhaps our Mod's could see widespread use?
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It's obviously a good idea to release a PC version (it'd be best to release the non-mac version as simply as zipped files, so as to allow Linux users to use the mods as well).
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"God. Root. What is difference?" - www.userfriendly.org
[This message has been edited by TheThirdJesus (edited March 23, 2000).]
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Baston
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Woking, Surrey, UK
Jan 2000
time: 05:14
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Okay... so lets rethink this then. Shall we make more a "useful" pack for Mac gamers out there?
* Ashman's filetyper
* PBeM quickstart mod (modified version of dutcheese as well as the original)
* Selected mods or are own new ones. New civ's, etc.
* Maps from CTP Maps.
Are you saying the trade mod from nordicus worked? If you are that could be quite interesting.
Essentially i am looking for the sort of thing i would have been after if i had just arrived on the scene... what do you think?
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TheThirdJesus
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LA, CA, USA
Feb 2000
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Baston on 03-23-2000 05:23 AM
Okay... so lets rethink this then. Shall we make more a "useful" pack for Mac gamers out there?
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That sounds like a good idea
quote:
* Ashman's filetyper
* PBeM quickstart mod (modified version of dutcheese as well as the original)
* Selected mods or are own new ones. New civ's, etc.
* Maps from CTP Maps.
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Since we should be able to get this installer from mindvision for free (since this is freeware), we could offer choices as to what to install, for example:
Pro players mods: Awesome AIPs, CD's mod, TP's powerslic, assorted minor mods (like colors00.txt, the 4000ad mod, etc)
Quickstarts: Edited dutcheese with both our edited dutcheese PBeM scenarios and the originals (this is not hard to do).
Minor mods: Assorted mods that aren't likely to change the civ:CTP experience much, like colors00.txt, 4000ad mod, TP's powerslic, etc.
The file typer, maps, new civs, etc, etc, etc, etc, would probably be included in all the install options.
Other options like Apolyton pack + nordicus' goods mod might be a good idea too.
quote:
Are you saying the trade mod from nordicus worked? If you are that could be quite interesting.
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It did and it didn't, it does everything it says it will... By that I meen, you can only use it with either an un-modded copy of CTP, or a copy with the apolyton pack installed. It's pretty incompatible with other mods, so that's the main reason why I don't like it and won't be using it personally.
Don't get me wrong, it works perfectly if you use it in either a apolyton pack game or an unmodded game, but neither of these options work for me.
quote:
Essentially i am looking for the sort of thing i would have been after if i had just arrived on the scene... what do you think?
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Of course this all depends on what type of gamer you are. When I got here I was pretty happy with the game by itself, but after I started getting better at the game, and was able to beat deity, I wanted more of a challenge. I would have wanted awesome AIPs and CD's mod, and of course other improvements such as the graphics for CD's mod, TP's powerslic, etc.
On the other hand, I'm sure alot of people wouldn't have been able to master the unmodded game/don't like the idea of completely changing a game that they already like. They probably would only want more minor changes to the game, things like betetr colors, longer lasting game (4000ad mod), better interface (TP's powerslic), cool maps, etc.
I think my earlier suggestion of offering multible options as to what to install would work the best, obviously the list would need to be tweeked and the exact mods to be used in each installation pefected.
On another topic, I did some research into how to do the editing of dutcheese that we talked about. My first 2 ideas (graineries and city walls, free wonder) are to a certian degree impossible. Through slic, you cannot create building or wonders like you can units. The closest thing you can do is edit the improvement and wonder files and set the production cost to zero, then instate a build que of the improvements/wonders... not at all what I was thinking .
Probably the best solution to that problem would be to set city walls and graineries to zero and just allow people to build them by themselfs. What do you think?
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"God. Root. What is difference?" - www.userfriendly.org
[This message has been edited by TheThirdJesus (edited March 23, 2000).]
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Finrod
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League City, Texas, USA
Dec 1999
time: 05:14
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Hey, guys, looking forward to seeing this.
One suggestion: I'd like a quickstart for e-mail games, but WITHOUT all the additional changes the Dutcheese mod makes.
Possible?
Tim
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21-03-2000 20:48
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