24-10-1999 03:43									#1
	Smsh's 2 whale/2 gold OCC comparison game Got spare money?

As he mentioned in the OCC strategy guide thread Smash mailed me an OCC comparison game with two whales and two gold. The game was saved as a scenario so if you want to play it you should select the "Begin scenario" option when you start Civ2. When asked which civ to play as choose Japanese; choose deity as level. The scenario was saved in the Mac version of Civ2, but I could also load it in the 2.42 Windows version of Civ2. It's available at http://home.planet.nl/~belt0018/OCCSmash.scn

PS 1: the problem playing the year 4000 BC twice has been fixed.
PS 2: the city site is to the west of the starting location.

[This message has been edited by Paul (edited October 23, 1999).]

	26-10-1999 01:45									#2
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Nice starting position with two whales/two gold. Unfortunately I seem to be having some problems getting enough money in my most recent OCC games. That means that the record is safe at 1821 even though I discovered Space Flight in 1740. I just don't have enough money to buy all those SS parts.

Of course when I say the record is safe I mean that I'm not improving it. It is of course possible that someone else can get a good score on this map.

	26-10-1999 02:44									#3
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I just finished the last couple of turns and landed in 1825. And I should learn to type and read more carefully. I just noticed that the topic says Smsh instead of Smash.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited October 25, 1999).]

	26-10-1999 08:22									#4
	Got spare money?

having played this map several times,I find sometimes the ai is receptive to alliances and tribute,the next time they all hate me.Makes a big difference.

	26-10-1999 15:11									#5
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Another problem I had was that the huts gave me only two archers. I used one as a defender and the other to explore. Unfortunately that one got killed by barbarians before I met any of the other civs. This meant that I met the other civs too late in the game. It is important to meet them early to trade techs and get gifts/tribute to build those early wonders, improvements and caravans.

	27-10-1999 05:28									#6
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ya thats why I like a horse or chariot in that first hut.
how big did you make city?I quit growing at 24.Could have gotten a few more by airbasing hills but that was voted a cheat, yes?

	27-10-1999 13:18									#7
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I downloaded the file, but I can't used it.
When I try to open it as a Scenario, I get an error message and civ2.exe crashes.

Paul, could you be so kind to send me a saved file instead of the scenario file using the e-mail address in my profile? Thanks in advance.

	27-10-1999 20:12									#8
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Gambler, I mailed the game to you. And Smash, I believe it was voted a cheat to airbase hills. If you want to be really sure about that you can find the rules in my OCC strategy guide. I also don't remember every cheat, especially the ones that I never use anyway.

	28-10-1999 12:45									#9
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disclaimer:I know this map very well.

I just landed in 1809.Spaceflight 1690 if I recall correctly.I was not able to build modules in "one shot".I got it down to 7 total by selling superhighways,researchlab and university and turning taxes to 100% after I had fusion.I'll be keeping those saves for awhile.

I think Paul may be able to squeak a pre 1800 out of this map.


In an unrelated subject did you(anyone who played this map) see the terrible position purple(Indians) got?In another thread I mentioned some terrible no landbridge pole starts I've had with purple.I don't know about that color.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited October 28, 1999).]

	28-10-1999 15:31									#10
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Smash, that's a great score. Of course it is not an official record because you know the map so well, but it certainly will make me try this map again to improve on that. With some fast units from early huts I should be able to meet other civs earlier making a much better score than my own 1825 possible.

	28-10-1999 23:23									#11
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Yes, the purple civ stuck on that little island, that would suck. At least they can build boats... I've played the map twice. In the first game the Indians actually established a presence on the large continent, but in the second game the Aztecs are wiping the floor with them.

In both games, the yellow Aztec civ became the most powerful very early in the game. In the first game they beat me to AC. Grr. Second game, I have just discovered space flight, and I think I will beat them. But they are a tough opponent. They wiped out the French almost immediately. I had to delay Apollo in order to build better defensive units; they are coming after me with cavalry and marines. I also took some time to build 3 or 4 spies cause I think last time they stole all the space tech from me.

1809, I don't understand how you do it. Did you keep a log? I'd really like to see some for this game.

Is it really necessary to build a granary, or a colosseum when you already have Shake's?

I got the city to 26 but after 2 Aztec attacks it dropped to 24. Then I built a tank.

	29-10-1999 02:25									#12
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No.I stopped keeping logs after a very detailed log ended with the destruction of my civ.All that detail for nothing.

I do not build a granary.
My city will hopefully have:
Collosus
Library
Market
Temple
Collosseum
Aquaduct
Copernicus
BEFORE Shakes.In that order.Collosseum is sold on the turn before Shakes is finished.Size 12 by then.

	29-10-1999 04:31									#13
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After my WLTCD to size 12 I find that I can often sell my Colosseum because at 20% lux I will have 5 happy and 2 unhappy citizens.

I have also played the map again; landed in 1809 like you did. I guess a couple of more attempts and I can land at the other side of 1800.

	29-10-1999 07:30									#14
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This is somewhat more than my 2nd attempt also.I fully expect a 17 something from Paul.Just don't go breakin 1800 by too much as it would be disheartening for the rest of us

Thats true about dumping your Colloseum after the first "we love"There's a few other "little" time savers as well.

Paul-when you build Darwin's,do you switch your science to zero and start the final "we love" the turn before it is finished?
ie:I finish a tech.

Rush Darwin's

Switch science to 0 and whatever luxuries is needed for "we love" the rest taxes
.
next turn Darwin's finished 2 freebies

"we love" started

switch taxes back to research.

I feel like I'm gaining something but maybe not.

What techs are you usually getting from Darwin's?or where are you along the road when you finish it?
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited October 28, 1999).]

	29-10-1999 15:00									#15
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I always rush Darwin when I have just finished researching an advance. When I buy it I set the science a bit higher than is needed to get a new advance every two turns. The science from that turn will be applied to the advance you start to research after you finished Darwin's. In this 1809 attempt I got Steel and Automobile from Darwin; I started my third WLTPD after finishing the Superhighways because it allowed me to keep getting an advance every two turns.

	29-10-1999 19:03									#16
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And to answer some other comment that Smash made: I build a granary depending on the food situation. In this game we have a gold mountain which I always like to work with my second citizen. That means very low growth, but good trade/science. In this game the AIs also seem to do very well in science; in my 1809 attempt I even managed to get Steam Engine from the Aztecs. That must be the most advanced technology I have ever gotten from an AI in an OCC game for a very long time.

	29-10-1999 22:05									#17
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The biggest problem in the game for me was always that the French would block my path to the Americans, Romans and Carthaginians. On my 5th attempt I finally managed they finally left me a route past them which allowed me to get early contact with those 3 civs. This allowed me more early trading and gifts and I landed in 1771.

	29-10-1999 22:13									#18
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Well, I guess I will try again with a granary & colosseum.

I finished my second game & landed 1923; started third game, think I will land in 1918. I got space flight in 1850 and thought I would finally land on the other side of 1900, but no soap. I got a little tribute from the Aztecs, but once I met the Carthaginians they both ganged up on me, end of the gravy train. Between them and the Barbs I was being hammered so bad I only had time to build 2 freights. I had archers fortified on the mountains, had to replace with riflement & then alpines -- otherwise my terrain improvements get pillaged.

You guys make this look so easy! Well, I figured out some things I was doing wrong. I forgot to research Democracy, and I forgot to build the research lab after I finished Darwin's. Lost both my engineers to starvation (!) and had to build two more. Can't this stupid game understand I would rather lose a tax collector than an engineer?

	29-10-1999 22:16									#19
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1771 ??!!!??!!?!?!

Argh, I give up!

	29-10-1999 23:12									#20
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It sounds like you two can play this scenario in one day/sitting. Is that right? Good grief, when I play a regular game (not OCC), it takes me many hours.

	29-10-1999 23:17									#21
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Steve - which is why I like to play OCC with some regularity. One game = threeish hours.

	30-10-1999 01:01									#22
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Steve, you save so much time when you only have one city to manage! And you have only a handful of units and they're not wandering all over the globe. I spend more time calculating the science rate than anything else...

	30-10-1999 04:31									#23
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1771!?Good God!Thats a little more than squeaking a pre 1800.holy ****!Back to the drawing board.Bigtime.

Ya an OCC game usually takes,what? 3-6 hours?
In fact I really don't play "regular" games right now.Just OCC and MP.

	30-10-1999 15:42									#24
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3-6 hours sounds about right to me.

	30-10-1999 19:25									#25
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I had a game with 3 whales and a spice in one of my VERY old games before OCC. I'll find the map and see how fast I can get there. My current record is 2019.

	02-11-1999 10:47									#26
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Finished my third game, landed in 1908. Hmm, the dates are slowly getting earlier. Maybe I can do this after all. I still have major problems with the aggressive AIs and the Barbs which are overrunning the whole continent. The AI don't want to trade tech or maps at all, they just demand what I've got & go to war if I don't give it. Think I will try this game in old Civ2.

Started a 4th game, didn't get an archer from a hut, it was very scary until I got riflemen. But it may have slowed me down too much. It's 1700 and I'm just discovering electricity. And I just realized I forgot to sell the colosseum. I did notice a benefit from colosseum, but still not from granary. When are you guys researching pottery?

	02-11-1999 03:42									#27
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Try giving in to their demands.I've found 1 concession is often enough to get the alliances you seek.

Yes. I do beleive the ai in gold is more hostile.Probably to prevent players from taking advantage in MP games.It takes alot more to get them "onboard" and they don't seem to be as generous with their gifts.25 and 50 gold are common.

I do not build a granary.Maybe I should.I too see no benefit since I am going to use "we love" for growth.Consequently,pottery is not high on my early priorities.I always get it from the ai or huts

	02-11-1999 04:37									#28
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I have done OCC in 1974. I got space flight around 1905. (First game on Diety I ever beat) . There are several problems. First of which the map I got this on had 2 whales, a buffalo and a wheat. There was one forest, three planes, two hills, five ocean squares and the rest was grasslands. That might have been one problem. The other was I was alone on the island. Those are my worst problems. I have several minor problems; one I can't get tribute. I had four alliances. They each asked me for several hundred gold each turn or else they would break the alliance, the when I requested a gift I would get NOTHING. The other problem involves money. I never have any money when I reach supercondutor. I had to waste it all on components. Can I have some help I don't know what to do. Thanks for your help. BTW Paul is your name Paul?

	02-11-1999 14:29									#29
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1771?????
Well, in my first try with this game
I just got a 1880 or something...
It took me a lot of time to meet the other civs ( so I missed the early tributes and trading tech) and I didn't meet the purples at all.

	03-11-1999 05:53									#30
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I lean towards a hydro plant if available or a plain old power plant.I hopefully dont have time for Hoover's.I have superhighways, research lab,offshore platform and manufacturing plant to build first.Also, at least 9 caravans.By then, its usually time for Appollo.

I am using MAC version 1.0 for my single player games.It is supposedly the same as PC 2.42.
My Gold version is reserved for MP only.I've got tons of memory to play with though.