30-10-1999 06:05									#1
	No Cities Challange Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Alright, you peace loving city builders have had your share of fun on One City Challange. It is time for the warmongers to unite! This challenge will be for anyone who considers themselves a good military strategist.
I have found that it is pretty easy to conquer the world on a small map without building a single city. For this challenge you will have to do just that, as quick as possible.
The rules are:
-You can save your game before entering a goody hut, and go back to it as many times as you want.
-No cities can be built by you (duh).
-It must be in Diety mode.
-You can't start on a premade map.
-There is no cheating allowed, for the list of cheats go to: http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/...html?date=08:13
After playing through for a couple times, come here and tell us your earliest conquering time, as well as your attack strategies.

	30-10-1999 06:22									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just one question... if you get a city from a goody hut, can you keep it? If yes, it's not much of a challange

Oh, and you do get keep any cities you bribe or conquer... right?

	30-10-1999 15:32									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

So, basically all i have to do is keep loading a hut till i get an advanced tribe.

	01-11-1999 00:24									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

AH! I just knew I forgot something in the rules. An additional rule would be:
You can not, under any curcumstance, be in possesion of any city, built by you or your enemies.

	01-11-1999 01:47									#5
	Put an end to popups!

What?!? Never in possession of any city? Clearly I am missing something. I generally try to avoid such absolutes, but if I understand you, this is a truly IMPOSSIBLE task. Without a city, you'll never have more techs than you start out with or obtain from huts. After all, you won't be able to research any techs without a city and you won't be able to steal any without diplomats. And I don't see any way to get a diplomat without a city.

So you're telling us that you conquer all the other civs given only the 1 or 2 settlers you start out with, and the military units you obtain from huts?

Finally, you say that you can't be in possession of ANY city at any time. Doesn't this restriction kind of defeat the purpose you have outlined, i.e. how can you "conquer the world" without having possession of enemy cities for at least one turn????
[This message has been edited by shamrock (edited October 31, 1999).]

	01-11-1999 02:26									#6
	Remove this text

To destroy a civ, you don't need to possess any of his cities, you just need to eliminate all of them.
Remember, you are on a small world, so you should be able to attack early enough so that your enemies won't have things like walls, barracks, and forts, i.e. things that tend to slow down mid-game warfare.
Building cities only slows down your invasion speed, and gives your enemies a target to concentrate their attack upon. By building no cities and popping goodie huts, you should have an attack force of archers and chariots numbering around 8 units before your opponents have a defensive force of 4 units.

	01-11-1999 18:28									#7
	Suffering from ads?

I dunno. Sounds pretty much impossible, unless you have incredible luck. Since Bronze Working is a basic tech, you can be sure that you'll be encountering fortified Phalanxes fairly quickly - some vets and some on rivers. Archers, Horsemen and Chariots won't fare too well against them.

Also, the AI has fewer rows to fill in the food box, meaning you'll be up against size 3, 4 and 5 cities with 1 or 2 defenders fast. There'll be no way of taking those cities.

Lastly, as soon as any city builds City Walls, you've lost the challenge. Even if you could defeat the defenders (unlikely), there would never be any population drop.

	02-11-1999 07:22									#8
	Got spare money?

C'mon, everyone, just try it! You're all being such critics! Just try it once at least!

	02-11-1999 07:55									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The challenge depends largely on luck rather than skills if you cannot EVER possess a city. If a civ is on another island, it is an immediate loss.
A more realistic challenge will be NOT allow building settlers. Maybe not allow building improvements and wonders. Alternatively, you may allow improvements but disallow building miltary units.
I believe that in such case, there is a reasonable chance for this challenge. I tried once using a normal world, had conquered 3 civilizations but got stuck by fortified pikemen in a rivered, city-walled capital.

	02-11-1999 08:13									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Play on a 20 by 50 world, because medium worlds are too hard.

	02-11-1999 20:19									#11
	Put an end to popups!

Alright, maybe a couple of amendments would make this possible:

You can take over cities but you must get rid of them ASAP if you can and never derive any benefit from them. To ensure no benefits from a city, set luxuries to 60% and science to 40%. Turn all citizens into Elvis. Build nothing but Settlers EVER. After they are built they must be moved out of the city and immediately disbanded. Research whatever you want. It won't matter since you'll never be building anything but Settlers.

Play on a minimal map so that all the AI's are on one continent. This has the down side of there being far fewer goody huts.

Finally, play at Chieftain level, at least initially - "Huh?!" you say. If I remember correctly, at Chieftain all attack strengths and possibly defense strengths are doubled. Your Archers and Chariots will carry some punch.

	03-11-1999 09:15									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Believe me, if you know how to effieciently move your troops, and you understand every unit's streangths and weaknessess, its not too hard. Even at Diety.

	03-11-1999 09:43									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

aarrgh!This may be possible but I don't have the patience for all that reloading

	03-11-1999 21:13									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I've gotten "close" before on a small world. If it is hot and dry you are more likely to have flat shield poor areas that are easy to attack with two move pieces. The rivers in a wet world allow the extra movement, but the defensive bonus negates it. I tried it a while ago with villages only on deity, and got down to two single city civs before my settler got smacked by some random AI chariot. IIRC, the last two cities would have easily held me off. I was down to just a couple of units and had no defensive terrain to attack from.

If you are going to try this, remember to select non restarting civs and put your settler(s) out of the way on a mountain!!!

	06-11-1999 08:33									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Actually, you should use your settlers to find more goody huts at all times.
Also, are you playing at diety? Don't worry about unhappiness, because basically you won't have any. If you play at Diety, you will have 2 settlers, not just one. This is an advantage, because your odds of getting both of them killed by wandering units is down considerably.

	13-11-1999 07:54									#16
	Suffering from ads?

So has anyone else tryed it yet?

	16-11-1999 18:21									#17
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Haven't tried it, and I guess I never will, due to the extreme luck dependency.
But the other night, I destroyed three civs while running around trying to find the perfect OCC-square. Additonally, I destroyed half of the cities (one, that is) of a fourth nation.
In that game, I should have managed to crush at least 5 civs if that had been my goal from the beginning.

C.

	23-11-1999 21:13									#18
	Tired of ads?

Isolationists of the Civ World Unite!
Let's have a "solitary settler forever and nothing else challenge"

	24-11-1999 03:19									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

doesnt sound too hard actually.... how many times have i conqiered three or four civs before mmy first city..... hmm..... too many to count... but it would have to be a landlocked world obviously and it has to be quick.... the ai has this knack of defending well after a certain point in small worlds especially if you do not have a city yet