06-09-2000 07:21									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Its not a question of having large areas of usuable areas or not. One can set how consistent vs. diverse the terrain is and the type of terrain (hot, cold, etc) with one of the bars before you start a game, right?

The problem is, desert should never be next to glacier. How could something that cold and that hot exist side by side? A smarter terrain generating engine would know to avoid that kind of thing.
[This message has been edited by Harlan (edited September 05, 2000).]

	06-09-2000 23:47									#32
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Regarding Monkey's Stealth Fighter question- the crossed swords are an attack icon. The screenshot shows a stack of 9 blue units including a stealth bomber attacking a stack of 5 orange units northeast of the bombers position. The red line is the movement line to the defender's tile; looks like the defender art is covered up by the attack icon.

Regarding the repercussions of a retreat- I believe that the surviving side gets a free attack on your units before they can withdraw. Let me check and confirm.

	06-09-2000 23:49									#33
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Harlan: I am a perfectionist! Many other civers are too. I always search for the best place to build my cities and in CtP1 it was very difficult to find them. There was always lots of swamp or desert around. Also the arctic tiles. In most of the games I wasnt very satisfied with the way the cities were built but had no other option. Also remember that you dicover terraforming tundra very late and you have to live with this terrain.
In Civ2 there was lots more grass and it was lots more fun!
I suggest more grass+plains combinations instead of this excessive use of swamps, deserts and arctic tiles.

Besides it looks just ugly. Having desert next to tundra. Thats a cut and not a smooth transition.
Ata

	07-09-2000 00:02									#34
	Got spare money?

More about retreating from the designers:

First off, only attackers are permitted to retreat. Once the retreat button is pushed the defenders will get one additional round of combat. If the attackers are too close to death they may die before being able to retreat.

	07-09-2000 03:21									#35
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Lt John one question: On average how many rounds do combats take in CtP2? And could you define round! Is a round when one group (definition group: ranged or non-ranged) of one nation attacks or is a round when all groups of both nations have attacked.

E.g.: Small battle:
blue with 3 archers and 3 Legions
red with 3 archers an 3 Legions

blue is attacker.

3 Blue archers attack
3 Red archers attack
3 Blue Legions attack
3 Red Legions attack

How many rounds have that been? 3 (IIRC non-ranged fight both at the same time) or 1?

Ata

	07-09-2000 17:54									#36
	Tired of ads?

Hi All,

First off I would like to thank Lt. John for taking the time to answer questions posted in this tread. I really appreciate it and I am sure a lot of other people do to.

I have been following these post with intrest. You guys have spotted a lot of things I missed. It is amazing how people with different intrest will spot different things.

I have looked at that Stealth Bomber screenshot now, also. I noticed that under the Bomber is another stack of the blue military, that stack contains at least one Stealth Fighter.

I think what is happening is either the blue military with 9 units, with atleast one Stealth Fighter is attacking the orange military with 5 units containing atleast on Stealth Bomber or vice versa. I think it is more logical for a stack of 9 containing a Stealth Fighter to attack a stack of 5 containing a Stealth Bomber, but you never know with how the AI has worked in the past.

Keep the comments and answers coming! They are really appreciated!

Timothy Pintello

	07-09-2000 22:49									#37
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ata- in your example of a small battle, a round would be the whole attack that you specify (archers, archers, legions, legions). In the case of a retreat, both the defending archers and legions would get a crack at the retreating troops.

The length of an attack in rounds depends on the strength of the attackers and defenders and is constantly being tweaked as we playbalance, so I can't really give you a firm battle length. Back to the example that you gave, I would estimate that this battle would last 3-4 rounds until somebody dies.

	08-09-2000 04:19									#39
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Thanks for clarifying the bomber pic Lt John. However I've got one concern about the retreat button. I'm still not really sure how the retreat would work. Would the retreat button be dependant on how fast your computer is? For example if my computer was faster than another would it be able to determine the outcome of a round faster than the other computer? If so then retreating would become a real time thing and you'd have to click the button real quick if you want the retreat to happen before the rounds were finished. Would there happen to be an option to "step" through each round, giving you time to think about whether a retreat would be the best solution?

	08-09-2000 11:20									#40
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I just saw that some people were pist about tundra and desert climates being together, but if you think about it that happens in the real world like in tierra de fuego where you have those two climates right between each other.

One suggestion i do have is not to put swaps next to desert cuz' that dosen't happen in the real world.
And I was wondering if there is more than 3 city styles?

	08-09-2000 18:29									#41
	Got spare money?

Where is that?

	09-09-2000 09:21									#43
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

About city-styles: yes I would also like more city styles. At least 5 base-types (european (castle), aztec/inca style, middle east, far east (chinese/japanese) and an african style (huts and longhouses)). Then there should be a village type when the city radius=1 a city type when the city radius=2 (can the city radius grow beyond 2? -> then there should be another type). And then for every epoch an own set. So lets see that makes 2 (3) radiuses x 5 base types = 10 (15) x 4 epochs (in the last they get merged) = 50 (60) city types + 2 (3) in the last epoch makes altogether 52 (63) city types.

Not that these types merge already after the ancient age like in Ctp1!

ata

	09-09-2000 09:35									#44
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So let me clarify here.

Is your complaint about the terrains being side-by-side or is it about the artwork?
If they did something like beaches to make a smooth transition would that be better? I'm just not sure what you are after anymore.

You seem to ask for it not to occur when asking for it to look nicer would satisfy you.

Gedrin

	08-09-2000 22:12									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Gedrin: Thats hard to say. There are two different things that bug me 1.) that it looks ugly 2.) that it is unrealistic. Now if it would be nicer (graphicswise) I would already be satisfied. But not that there is an excessive use of swamps or desert.
I know I am not easy

aTa

	08-09-2000 22:46									#46
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i agree about the swaps only, I'm cool with the desert part. have you guys ever played the original civ? now that was a cool map generator

	09-09-2000 22:21									#47
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What do you guys think about the kelp beds (if thats what they are)? I'd personally rather not see them until I have underwater vehicles and I'm close to underwater city technology. They stick out too much.

What do you think, and what do we know about them?