21-11-1999 04:10									#1
	Where do you build your first city? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I am a firm believer that unless the terrain is god-awful, you build on the square provided. Exploration is too time-consuming and costly in trade you could have had at that early in the game.

	21-11-1999 04:45									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

single player its ok to look around in fact it is advisable.The ai sorta slows down or speeds up depending on how you are doing.

MP-A little looksy is ok but you should build asap.But not at the expense of, say, building in the middle of huge swamp.

A horse or chariot is highly desirable at the start so go for that hut if its close.

A whale or few trade specials go along way to getting a good start.Give me gold and I am very happy.

IMHO

	21-11-1999 06:37									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Last night I wandered for 400 years just to start on a wine for capital and pheasant for the second city (MP game) I was still the first to Philosophy, and get the largest population, so sometimes it's worth it. (I did get a little help from an Ally) But it was way better than if i had plopped a city right down without a trade special.

RAH

	21-11-1999 16:45									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

Yeah, who you're playing's so important.

------------------
finbar

Mono Rules!

	21-11-1999 19:37									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

Unless I see a hut, or am on one of the poles, I build first thing. I'll improve the site later if necessary.
After that I'll be more particular.
I set up cities in perfectionist manner (yes,yes, many will disagree,lol); perhaps settling cities that disrupt that scheme at a later date.

	22-11-1999 02:49									#6
	Tired of ads?

I like to start the first city where it has the potential to become a science city. If the starting position is ok, I start a city right away. If not, I don't mind exploring for a good place. Finding some units in huts early is a bonus. It will cost you forever if you have a poor loccation, so spending 10 rounds to find one is worth it.

	22-11-1999 06:14									#7
	Put an end to popups!

If one does find a very good spot to start off by wandering a bit the payoffs can be huge. The problem comes when one wanders a bit, doesn't find anything, and just wants to take one more look, or just wanderes into a place worse than the original start. One can fall a very long ways behind. It's just a gamble that may or may not pay off.

	22-11-1999 23:34									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I ran different test to check that out a few months ago. My conclusion was that if you don't have a special ressource in your city radius don't settle. Look around for 4-5 turns until you can have 1-2 special ressources in your city radius. The math is easy the city using a special will have caught up with the other city in about 7 turns since it will produce a lot more.

	23-11-1999 03:15									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

lately i have been wandering around for long periods of time... in fact last night i wandered for 3200 yrs before i conquered a Chinese city. However i turned over 450 Gold 8 Archers 7 horsemen 2 legions and an elephant... oh and 5 chariots. Thats alot of goody huts. I destroyed two civilizations and when i took over Shanghai.... it wasn't my capital. When i built a new city it wasn;t a capital either. the ironic thing is that barbs invaded big time and put a hurting on my none units and then i was distracted and the game was done.... I should have saved it to continue. I guessmy point is this... against the ai... wander around as long as you like.. im MP build right away if possible.

	25-11-1999 18:59									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I always take these questions and discussions as meaning multi-player, since playing ai's is so lame.

	27-11-1999 04:01									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

MP rules, but I still get a kick out of playing against the AI.

Like most people here I explore a couple of turns first. Goodie huts or rivers are (obviously) great early on. A NONE horsie following a river travels fast, revealing terrain and finding more huts.

If I don't find a good location for my capitol I keep looking, the key is patience. I always check the "top 5 cities" window every turn early on to see when the others are founding their first cities. If I'm the only one without a city there is always a strong temptation to found the capitol right away no matter what the terrain looks like.

I have done exactly that in a lot of my games, unable to handle the stress. And I have regretted it almost every time. Slow science, missing great sites a couple of turns away and so on.

But in a small world with lots of humans I'd be more careful with my wandering settlers.

Carolus

[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited November 26, 1999).]

	27-11-1999 07:45									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

caroulus in a small world your advice is great ..... time is of the essance especially in MP which is why i prefer larger maps myself.... just last night i missed three specials by one space... don't know how i missed it.... however i had an early horse and he was magnificant... found me three cities a none settler and heaps of coin.... was first to monarchy with a shitty capital but still built the gardens first and first to monarchy and philosopy before everyone left

	27-11-1999 17:39									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I wasn't advising anyone, just describing how I play.

Of course it is better to found the capitol asap assuming everything else (like terrain) is the same. But things aren't the same and the trade-off between founding the capitol in bad terrain versus wandering doesn't always favour wandering. In some cases wandering is a dead end and founding the city early would have been better. In others it pays off big time. There's no way to know in advance.

I interpreted your post as a NONE horsie getting you those huts, true? I don't see that as contradicting anything I posted above. On the contrary, had you been more careful it seems you could have had those things and a good capitol? What was your capitol's terrain, what is "shitty" in your book?

Besides, founding a city early means that barbs can pop up from the huts. With 2 settlers going for huts (and perhaps NONE units) that's not the case and you reveal the terrain in a decent pace (fast with some NONE units).

"... before everyone left". I interpret that as the others quit, true? That doesn't sound like Apolytoners to me, more like people at the zone. If that's correct (and they actually quit) how serious civ players were they? In other words, do you think you would have gotten away with it against other players (difficult to answer, of course)?

Carolus

	28-11-1999 10:55									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

In MP... If I see a hut in view, I will hold off starting my first city (even if it is on the perfect spot) until I can clear the hut.
A non unit is just too good to pass up early.

I will then look for special resourses... I will never start my first two cities without resourses... unless there is NOTHING AROUND.
A special trade resource will catch you up for the few turns you search, and you may even find more huts. This is really key if you aren't playing double production