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Our first "celebrity" column comes from Activision's very own Winnie Lee, aka St. Swithin, who talks about -- what else? -- CTPII in an article entitled "Your Cities And You".
Comments/questions welcomed here, or you may choose to contact the author directly.
----------------
Dan; Apolyton CS
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Daniel Frappier
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Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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That's what i understood from the previous explanations they gave but i am surprise to see that worker 7 gives you only 1/12 of the radius B or 1 tile while each worker in radius A is working on 1 1/2 tile. So it would means that workers past the 6th would be less productive ?
Can you answer St. SWithin.
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Slax
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London, Ontario, Canada
Jan 1970
time: 00:14
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Daniel - I think you're right. I would explain it by saying it is due to distance to the city.
St. S. - There is no mention of the city tile being automatically worked. Is it? If it is, then ICS is alive and well, while if it works as you have written, but with the city tile included in the radius the same as any other tile, then ICS is dead.
Please let ICS be dead.
My calcs, if city tile is not auto-worked, assuming 1 resource per tile,
1 6 pop city = 9 resources
6 1 pop cities = 5.83 resources (tightly packed cities)
But if city tile is auto-worked:
6 1 pop cities = 10.83 resources
[This message has been edited by Slax (edited November 04, 2000).]
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Smeagol
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Commack, NY, US
Jun 1999
time: 05:14
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Daniel: But aren't there 16 squares in the 2nd ring? So each worker would then bring in 1 1/3 tiles worth of resources (in the 2nd ring). That is still of course less than the 1 1/2 from the 1st ring.
Here is the picture:
BBBBB
BAAAB
BAAAB
BAAAB
BBBBB
A= first ring, which includes the city tile itself in the middle
B= second ring
This is the way I see it unless those corner tiles for the B ring are not included.
[This message has been edited by Smeagol (edited November 04, 2000).]
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Smeagol
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Commack, NY, US
Jun 1999
time: 05:14
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Slax:
Quote from article:
"The amount of food, commerce, and production is totalled from the 9 tiles under the city's influence - the one the city's sitting on, and the 8 surrounding it."
...From that it does sound like ICS is dead.
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Daniel Frappier
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Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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Slax - You are right, i didn't noticed at first that there was no mentionned about the city tile, i hope it's not only because he forgot to mentionned it. I hope they really did something about ICS.
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Daniel Frappier
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Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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Smeagol,
You might have the explanation, it would means that the city radius is now a perfect sqare as opposed to Civ II and CTP I.
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Smeagol
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Commack, NY, US
Jun 1999
time: 05:14
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Slax:
That was not an "explanation", merely a theory. Are you sure the corners are not included? How do you know?
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Smeagol
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Commack, NY, US
Jun 1999
time: 05:14
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Slax:
I see what you are saying. I too hope that ICS is dead, so I guess we'll wait and hear from Activision on this. Then hopefully we can get a definitive answer on what constitutes the 2nd ring (12 or 16 tiles) and if the city tile generates resources separately from the surrounding 8 tiles.
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Slax
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London, Ontario, Canada
Jan 1970
time: 00:14
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According to the latest screen shots, the pattern is:
UCCCCCU
CCBBBCC
CBAAABC
CBAAABC
CBAAABC
CCBBBCC
UCCCCCU
where
A = pop 1- 6
B = pop 7 - (17,18, or 19)
C = pop (18,19,or 20) - (40-50?)
U = placeholder
we also were told that there is another level, likely to the border radius (one more ring).
In the screen shots I found cities as large as pop = 17 with the type B radius. I found a city with pop=20 had a type C radius so, the threshold, in these screenshots, was 18,19, or 20.
[This message has been edited by Slax (edited November 04, 2000).]
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Smeagol
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Commack, NY, US
Jun 1999
time: 05:14
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Slax:
Can you give me a link to that screenshot?
Regarding the workers further away being less productive, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing anyway. It'll at least keep the game slightly more balanced between huge and smaller empires, and it is a reasonable idea as well (after all, the further away the resources are, the longer it takes to get them to the city.)
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Drakenred
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Hou Tx
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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the way I understand it, (granted this may be pure confusion on my part, due to the articals ive seen from difent sources) is that their are several things that limmit ICS in the game
1) each City aparently has an Exclusion zone For example a City size of 1-6 will have a footprint like this, (C= CITY, A= ring of the first 6 workers, X= Squares where a new city canot be founded( again asuming a size 1-6 city), Y being where a NEW city can be placed) granted, this will still alow you to place a citys close to eachouter, or
YYYYYYY
YXXXXXY
YXAAAXY
YXACAXY
YXAAAXY
YXXXXXY
YYYSYYY<<
for example. for this kind of configuration
YYYYYYY
YXXXXXY
YXAAAXY
YXACAXY
YXAAAXY
YXaaaXY
YXacaXY
YXaaaXY
YXXXXXY
YYYYYYY
Resulting in a configureation simular to
(the (aca)tiles are tiles that belong to the new city on the block)
At best if this is the way the system works, you get a 9:1 City ratio,
Asuming a i misunderstood about the "no city buffer"(ie you can plant a City on any tile not curently being worked, but you canot place a city on a tile being worked)
your first City:
AAA
ACA
AAA
your second City
AAAaa
ACAca
AAAaa
your 4th city:
www
wcw
AAAaa
ACAca
AAAaa
your 5th City
wwwxx
wcwcx
AAAaa
ACAca
AAAaa
your 6th City
wwwxx
wcwcx
AAAaa
ACAca
AAAaa
vcv
vvv
your 7th:
wwwxx
wcwcx
AAAaa
ACAca
AAAaa
hcvcv
hhvvv
you have a ratio of about 35 tiles to 7 cities, or at best, a roughly a 1-4 ratio.
2)aparently, you are now also limited by a combination of Discoveries, and Goverment forms to the max mumber of citys you can keep under controll, once you go over your curent "max city count" all of your cities have a chance to go into full rebelion, based on your total number of cities,(Posibly this is kind of like having a ticking AI entity wonder in each city with the odds of an individual city going off being equal to the # of citys over the cap)
[This message has been edited by Drakenred (edited November 05, 2000).]
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Lord Jack
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Denver, CO
Jul 1999
time: 05:14
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My initial thought on this new method is: What if you have a desert tile in your city radius that you would just as soon ignore? Why do I need to spend 1/9 of my manpower resources working a tile with no real value? Shouldn't I be able to focus my resources on the more fertile tiles around?
[This message has been edited by Lord Jack (edited November 06, 2000).]
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MWatts
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Miwaukee, WI USA
Apr 2000
time: 05:14
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Atahualpa do you mean the maximus tiles a city will control is 24? Or did I misunderstand you?
Because I do be leave Activision said a cities sphere influence would go out 4 tiles not 3.
Sorry if I am wrong about this.
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St Swithin
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Santa Monica, CA USA
Apr 1999
time: 05:14
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OK, first ring has 8 tiles, 9 including the city tile. Don't think of it as 1 worker working 1 tile. Each "worker" represents 10.000 (ten thousand) people. So, you send your 70.000 people out to the fields to work. They bring back 100% of the resources from the 8 tiles around the city, while the city collects the resources from its own tile. When the city radius grows, it gets an additional 12 tiles. So yes, the 8th worker only gets 1/12 of the resources from that area, but there are a lot more (well, about 50%) resources on 12 tiles than on 8.
Now, ICS was something that concerned us a great deal, so it was at the forefront when we designed this system. Let's say you take a worker off the land and make him a Farmer instead. You have increased the city's food, but decreased the city's production and commerce. It's all proportional, so you can try to maximise each resource separately, but it's pretty hard to get a lot farther ahead in any of the resources because you're quickly limited by one or the other (so if you have lots of food, your city will take forEVER to build something, or if you have a pile of gold coming from the city, you'll have people starving left and right). Also, don't forget that you can have Entertainers and Scientists, both of whom do not contribute to the city's resource collection, but who both must be paid wages and rations.
Father Beast, I think that the "about the author" was a legacy bug 
Ralf S - got your email, I'm answering it here because it's a good question:
Regarding tile improvements, you can still build Roads, Farms, and mines using Public Works. The AI leader reserves a specific amount of production for use by each Mayor. The AI uses mayors to govern its cities; the priority of each mayor depends on the AI leader's personality. The AI will build more farms around cities whose growth is slower than larger cities. It will build mines if it is trying to build a lot of units or wonders. It will build roads between its cities, especially if it is more war-like. The AI reassesses its entire situation on every turn, especially when it is engaged in some kind of diplomatic action. Diplomacy is very important in CTP2. For example, if you have a permanent alliance with an AI leader, you are allowed to move your units through his land with no repercussions (i.e. he won't ask you to leave because you're mates). However, it is more difficult to achieve an alliance, since the AI will remember all the mean things you have done to him, as well as mean things you may have done to other leaders.
Anyway, I'm way off on a tangent. So I hope I didn't miss any questions about cities.
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Drakenred
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Hou Tx
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by St Swithin on 11-06-2000 11:14 PM
Now, ICS was something that concerned us a great deal, so it was at the forefront when we designed this system. Let's say you take a worker off the land and make him a Farmer instead. You have increased the city's food, but decreased the city's production and commerce. It's all proportional, so you can try to maximise each resource separately, but it's pretty hard to get a lot farther ahead in any of the resources because you're quickly limited by one or the other (so if you have lots of food, your city will take forEVER to build something, or if you have a pile of gold coming from the city, you'll have people starving left and right). Also, don't forget that you can have Entertainers and Scientists, both of whom do not contribute to the city's resource collection, but who both must be paid wages and rations.
Anyway, I'm way off on a tangent. So I hope I didn't miss any questions about cities.
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That was an understatment!
Is it just me, or did he anser the Question about ICS by changing the subject?
Ok Question
If i have a Size one city, and Take that individual OFF of being a worker and make him a Entertainment specialist,(who IS NOT workig any of the 8 surounding tials, Will the City radious Defualt to 1(the City Tile only) or will it stay at 2(the 9 tiles) AND what is the Closest Count, in squares from City center, that you can PLACE a new city to an existing Cities border???
2 What is the Maximum City Count under each form of goverment, and exactly what is the Penaties for going over that limit, If their is a Hard cap that canot be worked around Exept by diverting Masive resorces to keeping your 100 low pop cities in line, then you will STILL have problems with ICS
Drakenred
[This message has been edited by Drakenred (edited November 06, 2000).]
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05-11-2000 10:13
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