02-12-1999 17:54									#1
	observation on starting techs Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I haven't noticed this elsewhere so I'll post it now.

While starting over and over again the other night in a bid to do some justice to my OCC for men challenge I noticed that the number of techs you got at the start was directly proportional to the wealth of the terrain you started on. When given a polar start (poor terrain) I would have loads of starting techs, conversly, when starting on a river with grapes abounding I would have none. Has anyone else found this? or even studied the relationship in depth?

	02-12-1999 18:07									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

You get extra techs depending on your immediate terrain, as you have just found. As far as I know the game engine just checks the squares you can see, so you can get loadsa techs even if the terrain a few squares away is great. You also get extra techs if there is a nearby Civ. I don't think this has been studied in depth... any takers?

	02-12-1999 18:17									#3
	Tired of ads?

Miner seems to know what he is talking about...however the rule isn;t steadfast or else there are major bugs in the game i find that there is an exception to everything that isdiscussed


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War is the answer when you need to strike first.

War is the answer when you think you should strike first

war is the answer when you think others may strike first.

	02-12-1999 20:52									#4
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I would have to agree with johnmcd. Last night I recreated about 7 games and perceived that if I started around plains/desert squares in the radius and no specials nearby, I get good techs (Cer. Burial, Code of Laws = one step to Monarchy!!!). However, whenever I started near rivers with grass/shields or some specials nearby, I get either none or 1 starting tech.

Unless someone else wants to test this, I can do an analysis.

	03-12-1999 00:41									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

yes its true,generally.That is the big hole in MP.In SP bad terrain is compensated with free techs.Not so in MP.No techs regardless of terrain.

	03-12-1999 02:04									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Smash Except for the host who often gets lots of techs causing a restart

	03-12-1999 03:00									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If you are on a small island you tend to get more techs. This seems to hold even if the size of the land mass that you inhabit is not obvious in 4000 BC.

	03-12-1999 04:18									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Well if jpk is right then it may explain the legendary OCC start of which I have heard so much. I think I might see if there is any hard and fast rule or if it is slightly randomized.
Also, on the MP front (I don't play myself) is there not a market (not a paying one) for fair maps? Does no one make set maps and then mail them to participants to be unzipped upon the commencement of civilising each other? I would have thought that would be an excellent addtion to the MP scene, which from what I see all around this forum is burgeoning.

	03-12-1999 05:07									#9
	Got spare money?

There seems to be a mood of apprehension when it comes to premade maps.It seems it would be too easy for an unscrupulous players to peek and gain advantage with their new found knowledge.

	03-12-1999 05:20									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Smash is right..... the only way to combat that is to have a third party make the map and send it to everyone but even that isnt failproof..... too much opportunity for cheating in this game not that i know how or ever have for that matter.... i just play and when its over its over

	03-12-1999 14:52									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

but surely that can happen anyway. Could I not save the game and open it in a new window without anyone knowing, and then have a browse with the cheat menu? Or if a new window isn't possible open it on another computer. I'm sure alot of you have your good computer and your old computer.

	03-12-1999 17:31									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I have made such maps and used them in duels before. Most maps I make are a lot of green, and any squares with specials get turned into different terrain. I do throw in hills plains forest and plains for some interest.

Generally after making such a map i forget it instantly. I could, of course, cheat very easily, but most of the people I play mp with trust me.
btw only the host needs to have the map.

Some people dont like these sort of maps though, and prefer computer generated ones with a bit of jungle and ice , it doesnt really bother me.

For more information you could look at a thread i started in the multiplayer forum. But i wouldn't bother, its not very interesting.

Graag

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A man could not be in two places at once unless he were a bird!

	03-12-1999 19:22									#13
	Got spare money?

Back to an earlier thought -

Does the tech bonus for crappy starting positions not apply in MP? I always thought (perhaps assumed) it did. Yet, tonight, I started on 2 small pieces of land (approx 6 by 4 squares each) linked by an isthmus about 3 squares long and 1 square wide.

I started with one settler and no techs. This was Emperor level. I cursed the house down.

Now I'll have to think back to all my other crappy starting positions in MP. (Which shouldn't be hard!)

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	04-12-1999 00:15									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hmmm...every Mp game I've played has been at deity.You never ever get any techs.Cept host as pretty well known now.

Do non-host players get techs at king or emp?

	04-12-1999 08:11									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

At Emperor they do. We re-started a game 2 or 3 times the other night trying to avoid them. Then the host's connection chucked a tizz and we had to abandon. Bummer. Should've stuck with one of the bonus-tech games and penalised the host the number of turns equivalent to the number of techs.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	04-12-1999 08:39									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

OK, finbar, I give in - what the H**l is "Mono rules"???
The Collins Concise Reference gives...
1) the opposite of stereo...
2) Mono as in mono...rail
3) Mono...acid having only one hydroxyl ion
4) Mono...basic having only one replaceable hydrogen ion per molecule
5) Mono...carpic flowers that produce fruit only once before dying
6) Mono...chromatic having only one wavelength
7) Mono...chrome black & white photographs
8) ... to 45)
but our favourite is:
13) Monocracy government by one person as opposed to 39) Monotheism the beleif that there is only one God. Not to omit 43 & 44) Monotype ... SG[2] is a printer by trade!!!!

Confused, SG[1 & 2}

	04-12-1999 10:33									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

None of the above. Tee-hee.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	06-12-1999 16:42									#18
	Suffering from ads?

A crude post I've thought better of.
[This message has been edited by johnmcd (edited December 06, 1999).]

	09-12-1999 16:20									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Gawn! Stand up and be counted, S the B!

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	09-12-1999 16:27									#20
	Tired of ads?

Hmm. I don't think it will, it didn't flatter you any (it was about things you could do on your own...).
Anyway my suggestion for Mono is that it is short for Monotheism and is in honour of Mike's. Do I win the prize?