21-11-2000 19:36									#1
	TBS under attack!!!! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ok, guys, i am sure by now about what is happening around...

It is quite simple: i will not justify my toughts posting quotes of the official reviews, because i know you are smart enough to see it for yourself.

TBS games are under attack. "Stupidity-boosters" called RTS are "cool" right now (that's because the medium human beeing is a little bit over stupidity and prefers NOT TO THINK... and off course, RTS are generating a lot of money.

So, let's attack the last (s) hope (s) for TBS. I am sure now, that CIVIII will be under such attacks when it comes out, no matter what a great game it will be.

I am dissapointed about both reviews, mainly the one of Gamespot because Gamespot was a reference for me to buy games, till now. It is so dissapointing to read that the main critics against the games put the key features of every CIV-TBS game as something negative.

How can someone that clearly knows just about RTS (that is, a carnival of points and clicks with 0% neural networks working) review a game like this????

Markos, hurry up!!! I just will trust reviews from us, the real TBS players....

By the way, AMAZON has finally shipped!!! My copy is on the way! You will have some thoughts about the game from an old-veteran civ1-2-ctp-smac player...

See you later aligators, and watch up. War began!


Rebel Rick

	21-11-2000 21:10									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I agree, I am getting sick and tired of all these RTS clones that are being put out. Granted, there are a few good ones like AOE, Majesty and Cultures. These games have tried to inovate, instead of just immitate.

But, most of them are s h i t e. I mean, why put out a game, if you're going to take another one, change nothing but the units and the buildings, add a cheesy storyline and ship it? Do they actually think that their units and story are so impressive that I'm willing to pay $60.00 for an AOE mod?

So, when I go to the computer store, and see like a dozen of these cheesy RTS games on the shelf, and rarely ever any new TBS games, I foam.

It sucks!
[This message has been edited by DaddyCool (edited November 21, 2000).]

	21-11-2000 21:16									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

The only good RTS was Starcraft and Broodwars.

	21-11-2000 21:37									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Agree

	21-11-2000 21:41									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

when I first played war craft I liked it.

but you know what. it doesn't match the thrill of slowly buiilding up your strike force. complete with tanks, battleships, two air craft carriers, some marines and machine gunners. building them into an armada. and then attacking on three fronts at the same time.

strategy takes time and patience. both to maximize it, and enjoy the results. when I am playing real time I am so busy making sure that my warriors are going to the battle and not just standing around that I usually miss the battle all together.

	21-11-2000 23:22									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I quite like the C&C seris. I hated starcrap.

	22-11-2000 07:37									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well, the only thing I have to say is that, a TBS game is supposed to be a "non-stupid person's" game (no offense to anyone), but developers haven't been designing these games that way.

Look at M.A.X.2- a sequal to a very well designed (albeit, archaic game by today's standards) TBS game that tried to fuse the two genres together. What do we get? Something that is neither TBS or RTS, and becomes a hideous abomination in the eyes of God! Well, unfortunately, CTP2 seems to have a few of these tendecies as well. TBS players need micromanagement, they need 400 page manuals, and they need 102 ways to terraform their land. Besides that, they need all of the windows, interfaces, charts, graphs, and whatever else it takes to properly rule their empire and crush the enemy. (If you can't handle all of that, then go play Age of Empires, and stop thinking you are a true TBSer!)

These are the things that make TBS games so engrossing along with the hard work it takes to be good, and to win. It does take time, patience, and dedication to play a game like Alpha Centauri, or all of our's favorite, Civilization II, and frankly, most regular human beings don't see the point. To the die hard TBSer, their games are just a little more important than a quick win- it is a work of art, and a creation of their own. Having spent so much time building and defending and growing their own little virtual empire, it becomes something the TBSer remembers for a long time to come.

But anyway, my point is that there aren't as many TBSers out there these days, and the industry knows that, so of course game companies aren't going to be too concerened about TBS games.

Remember this, and remeber this well: the first and foremost purpose of the gaming industry is for them to MAKE MONEY; dedication to the fans, the game, and the fun is SECOND.

Never let them tell you otherwise.

	22-11-2000 09:46									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well said, Anun. I too enjoy slowly building something and then having to protect it. It feels like more of an accomplishment.

AOE is okay but could have been better if it took longer to build buildings and research technology. The Civ genre has far better balance in this regard.

By the way, I picked up this game called "1602 AD" which is like AOE but focuses more on building and commerce ... talk about fun! ... but I divert from the topic ...