22-11-2000 01:24									#1
	Unable to bombard earth/sea? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Sorry if this is not the good thread, but I don't know of which ressort it must be in..

Can someone explain me something I may be missing, but I really dont understand why we cannot bombard earth vs sea units and vice-versa? I mean, in Cic : CTP, we were able to bombard coastal city and units with our fleet and retaliate back with our cannons... Now, we just cant bombard units that are not on the same elements (sea vs earth). This is non sense...as long as we are within range, we should be able to bombard. Is that a bug or something? It said (on the charts) in the abilities of the "Ship of the line" : Bombards. For me it means that we can bombard coastal too (just look at our history...there was coastal bombardment : Siege of Quebec(1759), during the american revolution (just look at the french fleet during the film "The Patriots"), during the debarkment of Normandy...).

My second point is also about fleet... I decided, since we cannot bombard coastal cities, to make a direct assault with my fleet on a city. I am playing at "Hard" level... I had 7 "Ship of the line" aligned and decided to attack a city defended by 2 catapult, 3 archers and 3 pikemens... well I got cut to ribbon! A true disaster! I lost my 7 "Ship of the line" to nothing! (they did not lose any unit nor did got any damage??????). Excuse me but "Ship of the line" could just be destroyed by cannons! That's really a non-sense! Com'on!

My friends and I are oriented in naval combat, but with this situation it really remove the importance to even built a fleet or coastal defense!

There must be a way to modify the source code to permit shore bombardment... I will have to look on this...

Finally, just a remark...no "Legion" at all? How the hell did the most influential unit ever not in this game? It prevail on the battlefield more longer than any know melee army (400 years is not enough long to be taken in consideration?). They should be add in a future patch (think of it as the antiquities only good attack unit).

Do not think I hate the game....my friends and I just love it! We are missing our college cause of this infernal good game...just too good!

Does anyone agree with me that bombardment and "Legion" absence should be fix?

P.S. Sorry for my bad english, I am french speaking and doing my best.


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Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit

	22-11-2000 03:07									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

i believe the ability to bombard earth units/cities is left for more modern ships....

	22-11-2000 03:50									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

To more modern unit? Well, those "Ship of the line" were used to besiege cities. Their fire power prove to be quite usefull in what has become modern warfare. Know anything about french's Louisbourg fortress? It was bombarded by british's fleet as Quebec was before they falled to british's armies. Even in antiquities naval unit was used as besiegers... Rome and Constantinople tried an amphibious assault in 453-454 AD in ordor to try to retake the former city of Carthage who was under the rule of the Vandal's leader Geiseric. So coastal bombardment was a reality widely in use during the age of those "Ship of the line".

Secundly, even the "Ironclad" unit cannot bombards coastal cities/units? Excuse me but the were first introduce during the american's secession war and they were use often to blokus the southern states. They were conducting a lot a shore bombardment too.

So what's the point of being unable to perform shore bombardment with these 2 units?

Just my point, but I hope other people will react about that and ask Activision to modify this fact...it is very "uncool" when intending to use those units in a naval-oriented game.


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Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit

	22-11-2000 03:55									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

About the Legion thing: I agree with you but that isn't a big problem since you can rename the Samurai unit.

About the bombardment: the first land unit that can bombard sea units is “Artilery” and the first naval unit able to bombard land units is “Battleship”.

When I first realised that Ship of Line can’t bombard land units I was quite annoyed…but now I think that for game purposes it might be better this way! Ship of Line was way to strong in CTP1 and all my multiplayer games ended soon after one player found the technology to build them!!! So I think it better not to be able to send 12 Ship of Line to destroy a foreign city without the other to be able to do anything…

	22-11-2000 06:44									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The British bombardment of Quebec had no effect to the strength of the city and its army in it. The cannons were both too weak and too inaccurate to cause any damage to the army situated inside Quebec (partly because of the cliff). The british would be very lucky if they were able to hit a soldier 400m away with a cannonball.

	22-11-2000 07:49									#6
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Triphosphatase, you are right about the army strengh after being bombard by the British Royal Navy during the siege of Quebec, but since I use to lived many years in that particular city, I must tell you that the "low city", what we call the "Basse-ville de Québec" (Quebec was divided in two zone, the "High town" which was built on the higner ground (the cliff) and the "Low town" which reside around the height at the bottom of the cliff) was completely rased and lay in ruins (this is consigned in historical documents).

So you are right, maybe shore bombardment should not affect the army inside a town, but it can destroy the town's infracstructures.

So instead of denying the capabilities of a fleet to destroy an army, we should permit it, but reduce it's strengh... (cause I persist to say fleet bombardment at this time was very important in the disposal of sea fortress). A good exemple of this is the french's fleet intervention against Alger and its pirate's forces...the Arabic citadel was destroyed by heavy bombardment instigated by the french's fleet... the continental army finished them up after that (if I remember well).

I dont want to look stuburn (finally yes I am ), but in Civ:CTP, those "Ship of the line" had shore bombardment and this was great. To the people who said it is too powerfull, I remember my cannons retaliating back and that was cool...so it wasnt that inequal. And since in that game the AI tend to build up-to-date navy, they will use (I hope) the same shore bombardment tactic as we would.

	22-11-2000 09:27									#7
	Remove this text

I think that the sotl should just be lowered in the bombardment strength.

	22-11-2000 19:55									#9
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Hi All,

A possible solution to this is the one WesW instituted in one of his Med Mods. He gave all units with bombard capabilities the counter bombard capabilities. Thus when say a SOTL bombards a town with cannons in it, assuming you have given cannons the bombard naval ability, the cannons get a crack at the SOTL also. Thus the over balance is addressed, but ships with historical land bombard capabilities can still have them. Better still, all you have to do is make the change in the Units.txt file and the AIs will use the ability. No messing with AI files.

Timothy Pintello
[This message has been edited by Pintello (edited November 22, 2000).]