12-12-1999 07:19									#1
	What goes into a Science City? Support Apolyton

Yeah, it's me, the amateur, back again. I've seen people writing about making a "Science City." I have sort of a vague notion as to what it means, but I'm not certain.

So, what _is_ a Science City, and what goes into it, and what is the benefit of having such a city?

Thanks,

JimW

	12-12-1999 08:35									#2
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Super Science City= a city with Colossus, Copernicus Observatory, Issac Newton's College, Library, University, Science Lab if no SETI, and 3 good trade routes. Preferably one with good growth potential, low corruption (usually is capital for me), and LOTS of trade from squares. If stuck in Monarchy, Hanging Gardens is good to have in city since +3 happy makes "we love..." easier, and that also adds +1 trade per square (in monarchy, communism, fundy).

The advantage? Quick tech discoveries from one city, freeing your other cities to do other tasks.

	12-12-1999 10:22									#3
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A super science city should also include Shakespeare and a super highway.

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	12-12-1999 10:26									#4
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Thanks very much. That's what I like about this group as opposed to the various Blizzard groups. One can ask a question here and get an answer without a lot of sneering at the lame newbie.


JimW

	12-12-1999 11:17									#5
	Support Apolyton

AS, right, superhighway. Forgot about that thing. But Sheakespeare's I disagree; with 3 trade routes and all the extras (temple, marketplace, bank, colossus +1 trade) and 10-20% lux I find that it is unnecessary. Unless you're referring to an OCC.

Jim, did I forget to put you in your humble place? I must be slipping. Perhaps it's because I haven't been in this forum for so long that I feel like a newbie myself, somewhat.
[This message has been edited by Theben (edited December 12, 1999).]

	12-12-1999 17:00									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The early part of the game is a rush to build wonders. Success often relies on how fast you can acquire trade - to build the wonder caravans. At the tougher levels of play the Hanging Gardens seems essential to combat unhappiness. So if I have to choose between that and the Colossus – the Gardens receives priority.

All is not lost. The city with the Colossus can (if near enough) be captured. If you take the place early on, the other science wonders can be built there.

I frequently end up with two science cities as a result of missing a key wonder. Whilst this is not as satisfactory as the Super Science City – it helps the beaker output.

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Scouse Git (2)

	12-12-1999 23:09									#7
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Theben: Let me add two obvious improvements - aqueducts and sewer to allow the city to grow. Plus, I add a Harbor just keep the city growing as well.

Jim: I have a Science City now that is size 16 (late mid-game) and produces the following under Democracy:

Food/Surplus: 32/11
Tax/Lux/Sci: 13/13/438
Support/Production: 1/8

It has a palace, temple, library, university, aqueduct, marketplace, sewer, harbor, colossus, copernicus and isaac. It has 3 trade routes generating about 9 arrows each. Will build the colosseum just to get the We Love going without changing the rate (sci-80, tax-10, lux-10).

	12-12-1999 23:30									#8
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Steve,
Obviously you will want to build as many city improvements in the science city as you can, but the tech & trade improvements are what make a city a "super-science city".

BTW, you might want to build a Bank in your city instead of a colosseum. For 20 more "shields" you will get more money and should get a "we lov you" celebration. Unless you have a bank and just forgot to list it. We should mention that the science city also tends to provide a great deal of money for the empire.

	13-12-1999 05:43									#9
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Actually there is a valid reason to build Shakespears in the SSC, as any OCC fan will be quick to point out. you can then forget about luxuries. Set science at 100% if you can get a discovery every turn that way.You can have other cities send caravans to good forign trade cities for money (as well as more science) Granted, you may have difficulty keeping your other cities happy this way if they have any size at all, but screw them.

	13-12-1999 06:15									#10
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Isn't that what I said?

	13-12-1999 06:39									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

There is no reason why the Shakes city can't be a super science city and a military city under Democracy at the same time.Once it reaches a decent size it will produce a decent amount of sheilds in addition to the high beaker output.This is usually the time any resupporting will start anyway.You only need 20 to 30 sheilds to support a strong part of your total military.A "Republican Guard" if you will.Any improvements needed after that(Research Lab,Superhighway) can be rushed.

	13-12-1999 06:54									#12
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Don't forget supermarket and farmland for the science city. The extra food allows more scientists which increases science immensely.

	13-12-1999 11:32									#13
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Smash: true, but I prefer to have my Sheakes city also have KRC and use that for my military powerhouse. My SSC usually just takes care of itself-let the other cities worry about worldly problems.

	13-12-1999 20:10									#14
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A couple of thoughts:

1. Shakespeare lets you run the whole operation with zero luxuries. Since there are so many science improvements loaded into this city, zero luxuries translates into ALOT more science.

2. Another trick with Shakespeare: Use OTHER cities to support the defensive units for the Shakespeare city. This frees up a few more shields so you can home a few more offensive, naval, or border units to the Shakespeare city. Make sure the Super Science City (with Shakespeare) still produces at least one shield net so you can buy whatever improvements you need there for cheap.

3. I would rather have Colossus than HG because Colossus lasts longer, and gives additional trade even when in democracy. Another reason for this preference is that I usually build only about 8-10 cities, so I dont need HG as much.

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	14-12-1999 10:22									#15
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If done properly the super science city can produce 90% of your research(depending on your # of cities). I was able to produce above 1100 beakers/turn with it which translate to 1 techs/ 1-2 turn. Sheakspear is really important as it allows you to WLPD with a luxuary rate of 10 to 20%. It also allows you to do it longer (above 32 habitants) without affecting your science production. In MP it is hard to find a good city location to do it (with at least 2 trade specials). Other wonders such as Mich and JSB usually take precedent. In the couple of MP games I was able to build it it is a killer. Your science skies rocket and you can build a substancial lead. Then everybody hates you, don't trade with you and steal from you.

	13-12-1999 23:34									#16
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Hey, Jim, you can't be an amateur. You're a full-blooded "civer", not a "junior". As for the topic at hand, I've built my first super science city in my current game and am quite impressed with the output. Granted, I'm nowhere near 1100 beakers/turn (that's not a typo, is it?) but I'm getting there. And I would have thought more mention would have been made in this string than just once (see geofelt's post) about the need for scientists. It occurred to me in mid-game last night to improve the farmland, build the supermarket, and thus free up inhabitants for scientists. The only bad thing about this is that now I have two more wonders (Coper and Sir Isaac) to add to my list of "must have" wonders.

	14-12-1999 00:43									#17
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I built the SETI wonder for the first time and it's effect was really good. The number of beakers in your science city goes in cycles. It reaches a peak after Isaac but before Flight which cancels the Colossus. It also varies as you adjust the science rate. Under Democracy, it should peak again at SETI and if you continue to grow for the sake of it. Once I get the advances for the spaceship or an adequate army for total warfare, I stop the science.

	14-12-1999 05:52									#18
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ADAM
Interesting comments about the Colossus v Hanging Gardens. I tend to build many more cities. Why do you stop at 8 - 10?
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Scouse Git (2)

	14-12-1999 06:48									#19
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Scouse:
Now that I think about it, HG may give you the extra trade arrow in democracy. Anybody know off the top of their head? The point about Colossus lasting longer still applies.

Why do I stop at 8-10 cities? It just takes too long otherwise. I dont have much time to play, and it usually takes me about 20-25 hours to finish a game. I dont know if this is because I am too deliberate or if it is time to replace my 100 mhz machine.

	14-12-1999 07:36									#20
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Same here, I have a faster CPU but with 12 cities, it takes me about 30 hours. I think the difference may be that I stop to take detailed notes for my log. I can only do this, at most, once a month. That's why every regular game is a new experience for me.

	14-12-1999 08:28									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

You only get extra trade from "we luv U" days in military govts; and not despotism or anarchy. In demo it just helps you get that pop jump a little easier.