08-12-1999 09:18									#1
	Landed on AC in 1535 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Finished my last game using small map 7 civ deity raging hordes, and landed in 1535.
I don't have detailed log file but I can describe how I did it.
First I expanded and built as many cities as possible until around 600 AC. I use a city close to my capital as the science city(whale, silk, wheat that I turned into silk). Not the best city and could be improved (only 3 special no river). Grew that city to size 12 using trade caravns. Build up the usual OCC wonders + all the happiness wonders using caravans from all my little cities. I was able to switch to democracy around 600 BC (thanks to the happiness wonders) wltPD with 20% luxuary. Was able to grow the science city to size 32, several cities to size 5. I pick 4 trade rich cities and grew them to size 11 as secondary science cities (3 trade routes, lib, univ, temp, mark)producing around 100 beaker each. I also used the wonder to spaceship part trick using caravans to build up shields in 24 cities. Was able to launch the spaceship 1 turn after discovering sup. cond. had 3000 gold left (should have managed better)
Had 80 cities at the end of the game.
Some dates:
2300 monarchy
2250 in monarchy
1000 writing
around 600 AC democracy took 4 turns to switch gouv
920/940leadership
1000 search tactics
1100 search corp
1260 electronics
1400 adv flight
1420 rocket
1440 space flight
1460 plastic
1480 laser
1500 gen engeen
1510 sup cond
1520 fus power launch space ship

1535 landed

	08-12-1999 11:35									#2
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An impressive achievement... if not for the fact that you seem to have used the food caravan trick... cheater!!!! Correct me if I am wrong.

If you are able to do it w/o cheating, my hat will be off to you. If not... it won't make it to my hall of fame.

benedetti


PS. Don't be offended by my remarks please. It's just my nature.

	08-12-1999 12:44									#3
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Excellent!must have been alot of work.

The food caravan is not a cheat.Why do they have food caravans?So that governments other than Democ and Repub can grow faster as well.Also, in my version the producing city gets a -1 food "trade route".Its just prudent to offset this with 2 cities.IMO

	08-12-1999 18:09									#4
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arii,

Very impressive! Did you use "directed" AI research (gift the AIs with techs so they'd research what you wanted)? That saved me quite a few turns on my game.

	08-12-1999 18:47									#5
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DaveV:

You've just touched on something I've not heard of before. Can you spell it out for me, how exactly you get the AI to research the tech you want and where it goes from there?

Where's the cheat in food caravans? That's what they're for, isn't it?

	08-12-1999 19:18									#6
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MyOlde,

You need an embassy to make this work.

1) Check intelligence on AI. If he's researching a tech you already have, then:

2) Trade techs if he has one you want, or give him a tech. Try to give him the tech he's currently researching; if that's not an option, pick the tech you least mind giving away.

Repeat as necessary. If this works properly, all of the AIs are contributing to your research effort. When they find a tech you don't have, trade, beg, steal or threaten it out of them.

	08-12-1999 21:30									#7
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I imagine this is the cheat reffered to:

8.3) The way food caravans make the food box full can be used in a strange way. You can send multiple food caravans from city A to city B, and it will only cost you one food subtraction for the trade route. The first caravan fills the box, and the second adds a population. This can be repeated endlessly to build cities up to the max population without any concern to the availability of food in the city radius. All this for the cost of ONE food trade route. You can also send a food caravan to the city that built it to fill its food box, and then a second to increase its population.

This use of food caravans is a cheat, or bug depending how you see these things.

	09-12-1999 10:12									#8
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Regarding food caravan I sent them 1 at a time ( had a granary) so 1 pop growth per turn.
Regarding the tech trade with the AI. I gave them all my techs until around tactics. Tactics is too powerfull and is asking for truble. I had ambassies with the 2 leading AI civs, but their research was very slow and I could only get 2 techs out of them. Maybe I should not have flooded them with all those techs.

	08-12-1999 23:08									#9
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Arii:

Next time we play against each other perhaps you should flood me with techs.

Benedetti:
So you still do exist. Haven't seen you post for a while. Do you have MP gold? We're always looking for challenging players to play against.

	14-12-1999 09:09									#10
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I've tried this strategy of going "settler mad" and just creating loads of small cities a couple of times, but it won't work for me. For one thing, the AI immediately causes any adjacent civs to become psycho killers, on the basis that you're easy pickings, not having enough military units early on. For another, after you get to about 20 or so cities, they all start going into civil disorder (even when the enemy is attacking them - filthy collaborators!) which forces you to slow production down by creating entertainers... it strikes me that this strategy - like much else - relies on having the ideal circumstances of good terrain and non-militaristic neighbours to work at all.
What am I missing, if anything?

	14-12-1999 18:01									#11
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C Chulainn,

The way I play the "infinite cities" game, I *do* have lots of military units. Each city supports 1-2 garrison units and a unit out exploring the map or defending a chokepoint. Any AIs that share my continent will fall over themselves offering peace and paying tribute. As for civil disorder, the magic answer is Hanging Gardens.

I see this AI behavior in version 2.42 (the original Civ 2); from what I understand the later versions have more aggressive AIs.

	15-12-1999 00:41									#12
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I have the MP gold where AIs are more agressive (just don't feel like switching back and forth).
If you are big enough the AI is afraid of you so it doesn't attack you (big means you are 3, 4* bigger than the stronger AI on the power graph). Also by giving it a lots of techs it is less likely that it will break a treaty. I get maybe 1-2 sneak attack the whole game. Don't leave weak units(settlers, caravans) by the AI and expel any units that get close to your city. If the AI declares war you can then strick first.
For the unhappiness due to civ size you need the HG as early as possible. As you keep growing make mich chapel a high priority.
The above score won't stand long. In my new game I am kicking some butt. I am in 900AC and searching for radio. I hope I'll be able to finish it before I leave on vaccation in 2 days.

	15-12-1999 00:55									#13
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Hello Matthew,

Thanks for your note. Yes, I have MGE, but I also have a wife. Unfortunately, both of them appear to be "mutually exclusive"

	15-12-1999 01:02									#14
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Giving techs to the AI also improves your research speed and the AI may discover something you don't have yet that you can trade for. As you know your research slows down when you are far ahead of the AI. I just replayed Smash's OCC game with the tactic of giving all my science to the AI and after Superhighways I even had a short period where I had a new tech every turn. I also had some luck with the huts and landed in 1565. This has inspired me to try this in an OCC game on a new random map to see if I could break my official 1821 OCC record and it is working well; I am ahead of the record schedule.