22-11-2000 09:21									#1
	Is it just me or... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Is this nothing more than a cleaned up version of CTP I? Its great fun and all, but there nothing really new here, maybe a few new units and all, but seriously, nada. The game is much slicker and cleaner than CTP I and thats great, but this should have been a free mod or an expansion for like $20.00, not $50.00. Anyway, I DO like it but feel cheated a little.

	22-11-2000 11:29									#2
	Got spare money?

yeah, i mean, ctp1 had borders, but they were just not "clean" enough. the samer with diplomacy. the proposals and the counter-proposposals threats were there, but you couldnt see them cause they were not very "clean".... and those flanking units, they were there too... and the tile improvement, it was the same but see what "dirt" does a system? it makes it look the same...

	22-11-2000 15:11									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

MarkG, you are a little to quick to set him out:
true, the game has some new (and VERY interesting) features and this ALONE makes it a NEW game - because it innovates gameplay...
BUT I think you will agree that the differences between Civ and CivII were bigger (GRAPHICS, interface, battles, tech tree and related, CUSTOMIZABILITY) than the ones between CTP and CTPII (battles, tech tree -by the way, I do not like very much CTPII tech tree- and related, interface, DIPLOMACY, BORDERS AND VICTORY CONDITIONS).
On the other side, there is practically NO difference between CivII and TOT, and I personally think that CivII is better that TOT ...
SMAC was massively innovative (sometimes too much? ).
Anyway, the changes in CTPII are way too big to fit a patch -I mean, what a patch would that be!- and the game up to now appears good from the reviews (I had not played it yet, you know, Europe) so I would give it some money - but frankly 50 euros are a little too much in my opinion...
I WILL give them the money, but if this time there is again NO SUPPORT (yes, I was one of the ducks who bought CTP... played it once and not event all the way through, then I FORGOT it and did not look for mods -besides, I do not like mods, you can SEE the game is "adulterated", for instance no library...) Activision will very probably not see me again.
And look, bugs&begs are already coming -luckily, not in hordes like some time ago ...

	22-11-2000 15:57									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The differences between Civ 1 and Civ 2 were very small. The graphics sure, but I preferred the map lok of Civ 1 anyday, the rest was just added units/advances/terrain which is in CTP 2 as well. Then in CTP 2 you have major differences in diplomacy and battle and city management etc.
Civ 1 is still the innovation, I played that far more than Civ 2. Same thing as I explained with HOMM2 and HOMM3. If you had played HOMM2 so much that you were tired with it, HOMM3 offered nothing new, so you didnīt even want to play it. You were tired with it before it even came out.
CTP 2 on the other hands gives enough changes to grip me, and the possibilities of mods are always exiting.

	22-11-2000 16:02									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

civ1 was release in 1991. civ2 was released in 1996.
OF COURSE the differences would be many(although some argue that they are not many)....

	22-11-2000 16:03									#6
	Got spare money?

an example of these people is Depp

	23-11-2000 10:35									#10
	Suffering from ads?

I think CPT2 should have been a expansion pack. Nothing worth 50 bucks to spend on although 30 bucks is reasonable. Really the only feature that was worth it is the brand spanking new interface.

	22-11-2000 23:43									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you wait a couple of weeks, you should be able to pick it up at a promotional price at Best Buy or Circuit City or CompUSA for $30. I remember when ctp came out, after a month or so you could get the game and the strategy guided both for like $30 total.

	23-11-2000 01:19									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Ouch! Must have hit a nerve or something.

I'm well aware of the additions to CTP II that differentiate it from CTP I. And yes, what they've added has greatly changed and improved the game..but..enough to call this CTP II? Just barely, I think. It IS a much improved game, but if your criteria for a squeal is moderate tweaking and bug fixes then you must not expect much. A sequel should improve AND expanded on the original, while CTP II does improve on the original it doesn't go far enough in expanding it. If you bother to read what I was saying in my original post you'll see that I urge anyone who doesn't have the first CTP to buy THIS one. If you ALREADY have the first CTP my advice was to WAIT until the price drops, this one just isn't worth $50 unless your just a major die-hard fan, in which case any Civ game is worth the price!

I'm sorry if some people seem to have a personal stake in this game, but lets try to be civil about it, after all, it's just one persons opinion. Don't let it get to you.