26-11-2000 00:09									#1
	Diplomacy: The Everlasting Struggle Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, I don't about anyone else, but I've failed to see much of he new diplomatic features in action because the AI rejects everything! Even the stuff that benefits them is rejected if it has any sort of request in it.

And people say the threats work well. It doesn't for me. Civs that should crap their pants when I say WAR, don't even flinch when I threaten them.

Meanwhile, there is also regard and trust. I usually can not get civs out of Repectful and Vigilant. Does how you treat their enemies make a difference? If I go after their enemy, will they warm up to me? And what about the Diplomats. They're not very Diplomatic. I hosted receptions, and I wined and dined 'em, but it didn't do anything.


So what am I doing wrong?

	26-11-2000 03:53									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

I've had a rather different experience. My perception is that it takes time to build trust, and a really massive powerbase to inspire fear. At the moment, I can get the Egyptians to give me any advance they get simply by asking for it; we've been on good terms for about 2000 years. On the other hand, the Australians or the Americans won't give me the time of day (possibly because they *hate* the Egyptians?). Also, fear seems to be relative and highly subjective to the civilisation being browbeaten: while I could wipe the Australians off the face of the earth, they simply ignore even the most heinous threats. On the other hand, the Russians who are toward the bottom of the heap in my current game went so far as to give me a city when I threatened to go to war with them. To me, the AI seems to makes sense, albeit perhaps not according to the way we ourselves would react. I rather like it that way because it adds a flavour of real personality to the opponents, some genial, some intransigent, and some seemingly crazy as loons.

	26-11-2000 10:16									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm not saying that I don't like the diplomacy, I just haven't quite got the hang of it. Sometimes it has proven more effective to just wipe out some of the civs. In the game I'm playing right now, I've destroyed the Native Americans. They just WOULD NOT make peace with me, so there was really nothing else to do. But when I got to the last city, I discovered that it was across a small section of water separated from a huge body of water by an ithsmus. And on that one square wide ithsmus was a Native American city captured by the Americans. It was a size 2 city, but no matter what I did the Americans would not surrender it. The only way to cross over was to either found a new city on the shores and build a ship, or travel ALL the way across the continent and attack the city from the other side (the continent wrapped all the way around the world.)

The point is that the Americans were acting completely without reason. I offered 1500 gold for a size 2 city in my most pleasant tone, and even when I threatened, they refused, and my army could have crushed them too.

But on the plus side, I'm now able just to threaten my way into Alliances. Only those pesky English and Scottish won't join up. The Scots are a small country seemingly with a death wish. The English are very powerful and are willing to join trade and science pacts (for high prices) but will not enter into an alliance despite an offer of 5,500 gold from me.

------------------
"...The highest realization of warfare is to attack the enemy's plans; next is to attack their alliances; next to attack their army; and the lowest is to attack their fortified cities." - Sun Tzu

"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle this job is under-estimating" - George "Dubya" Bush

Dom Pedro II - 2nd and last Emperor of the Empire of Brazil (1831 - 1889). :Hannibal3

	26-11-2000 13:35									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

regard must be built to get someone into the "big" pacts. you have to do a lot of offers in the beggining, starting from the offer to withdraw from his area(dont ask for anything, just offer it) and the offer of your maps(again ask for anything). a bit later request for him to withdraw from your lands in a exhange for some gold. if you're big anough you can use threats, but if you're not dont even think about it

	26-11-2000 23:25									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yeah, the threats have worked pretty well, but it fails against the English. I put a whole army outside Liverpool and asked him to sign an alliance for 5,000 gold, and when he refused, I said I would reduce Liverpool to rubble (and I could have). They ignored it anyway. I gave them a lot of things, but they still refused.

Does tone of voice really make a difference?? And if so, should I be using the Kind voice to a country that is on equal or higher footing than me?

	27-11-2000 08:29									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Simple question (difficult answer?): How do I get the AI to trust me?