23-12-1999 09:05									#1
	OCC+AC=Problem Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

How in the world do you build a spachip in one city!? it would take at least 25 turns wouldn't it? How can those amazing records be set?

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Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	23-12-1999 09:21									#2
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yes 25 turns.Apollo and 24 SS parts.

A little luck and alot of skill

	23-12-1999 09:50									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thats amazing

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Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	23-12-1999 18:28									#4
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Thats assuming the city is producing at least 80 sheilds and you have at least 9 caravans/freights/units to disband
.
Finish Apollo any which way.

Structurals are 80 sheilds a pop,so thats 1 per turn for 15 turns.

Components(160 sheilds) are done by disbanding a caravan.Rushing a structural, then switching to component.Thats 22 turns.

Modules are rushed by disband and/or outright buying usually.25 turns.Launch

	24-12-1999 02:54									#5
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How can you get all the tech so early that there is 25 years to spare, and you still land the thing before my not OCC game. I play ICS with a SSC and my city usually make 800 science at 60-70%. I get all the tech around 1930. In an OCC how is you city that good?

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Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	24-12-1999 23:34									#6
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I've only tried one game of OCC (and got clobbered) but I think I know the approach. You make sure your one city is the SSC, make peace with the other civilizations, and trade like crazy with 'em, both in the form of advancements and caravans.
[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited December 24, 1999).]

	25-12-1999 03:23									#7
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Making caravans and city imporovments and wonders all in one city... You'd have to be some kind of guru.



Great job

------------------
Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	25-12-1999 04:53									#8
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OCC city with good trade specials should produce at least 1000 beakers later on.With Shakes luxury rate is 0.

contact with other civs is very important.The sooner the better.Early coddling to them pays off with tribute from alliances.Periodic gifting of techs,exchanges of maps can get you the receptive,cordial or worshipful attitude you want.I'll gift/exchange up to but not including flight.No Astronomy until Cope's is built.No medicine until Shakes is built etc.

Trade routes make a huge difference.Probably a good idea to be in Republic before first one is setup in addition to having a market.

Following a precise tech path is important as several techs are not needed for success.There is no strategy for not being offered the right tech.If possible,pick something the ai has and try to trade for it.

The first "we love" days under Republic are pretty important too.You want swell up to 12 while ais are 5 or 6.Up to 21 while ais are mostly still 8.


If you follow Paul's strategy you will have success.Maybe not 1800 something but success.

The gold version ai is substantially more hostile than the single player version making Paul's ideas more difficult to implement.But it can be beaten.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited December 24, 1999).]

	25-12-1999 09:04									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hey thanks for all the help.

------------------
Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	26-12-1999 02:47									#10
	Put an end to popups!

The TOT AI is also a pain in the ass...
I give them everything and always make peace.
I am even polite when the stupid bastards sit a unit right on my silk. And still they come in and threat, make war etc. They threat for all the tech. If I have 230 gold, they ask 200. If I have 1600, they ask 1500... I think TOT AI is even more hostile then any other. I even edited the leader personalities and made them all peaceloving, but still...
Well, I am going back to old trireme&crusader routine, enough OCC for me

	26-12-1999 03:53									#11
	Put an end to popups!

Hey Smash,

When do you develope Flight? That seems like a critical decision as it makes Collosus obselete. With my nip and tuck OCC games, I usually wait until I have robotics and Laser and then I go for Flight. Sometimes I have a choice between Flight and Amphibious warfare and Theology and maybe Guerilla Warfare....

I was also wondering about defensing the One City. Do you build alot of fortresses in mountain squares four of five squares away?

One neat OCC tactic is to use all those Freight to fill the lands around your city so no diplomats or settlers can approach or encroach.

Oh, also, when talking about caravans/frieght, you always use the word, disband! Don't you help 'build the wonder' and then switch to components or modules without penalty? That was Scouse Gits revelation.

Thanks for your great ideas. I've managed to squeak by 4 or 5 times now. I do really well when I have a city in remote lands given a whale and river and maybe Gold. One of these days I'm going to find that third whale and have monarchy prior to cultivation!

Aurelius

	26-12-1999 11:26									#12
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I just finnished a game, and I think my next game will be OCC. Wish me luck. I hope I don't start next to Ghondi...

------------------
Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	26-12-1999 13:14									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Here is Paul's recommended tech goal path which I find most helpful.

Bronze
Monarchy
Writing
Trade
Construction
+Republic+
+Astronomy+--(one of these 2 usually via Philosophy)
Medicine
Sanitation
University
Banking
Gravity
Democracy
Economics
Explosives
Refrigeration
Railroad
Automobile
Computers
Robotics
Spaceflight
Plastics
Super Conductor
Fusion Power

this is the "goal" path.Not the exact path.So Flight is after Robotics but before Laser.You want to be building the SS as you discover new parts.

Defense is dictated by terrain and ai activity.If you can setup a "chokepoint" then by all means.If I start seeing ai units or heavy barb activity,I'll build a fortress to keep them from pillaging.If its close,then you want advance warning of approaching dips.So patrolling or blocking may be required.

I like to let ai caravans thru and bribe them(if possible) and send em back.

I usually disband as sometimes there is no wonder available.And with 80 or more sheilds it might not be necessary.And,to be honest,I only recently found out switching from a wonder to SS part has no sheild loss penalty.Worth a further look for sure.

A good position is very important.There are several "saves" of good OCC positions available here I think.Somewhere around here anyway.

	28-12-1999 23:41									#14
	Remove this text

The four whales save is here at Apoly downloads http://apolyton.net/civ2/db/ just type "occ" in the names box. Paul's site also has two other games that are helpful for getting a good start.

I have been gone for a bit, and catching up on all these posts is making me want to skip the golf and play some civ. - hey, Aurelius - how about this weather! Only the Aussies have it this good.

	29-12-1999 04:17									#15
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Good to see you back, Sten.

	29-12-1999 04:35									#16
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Been out of town for a bit... couldn't stay away any longer! cheers.

	29-12-1999 04:52									#17
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Oh Sten,

Arrived here in SF about 11 years ago from the Cold Cold NY netherregions. On that '88 day it was sprinkling in mid April and I remember the townfolks were complaining that it was a cold, wet day. I laughed in that balmy mist, now I'm a spoiled fair weather camper. Incredible day out there! September to November is suppose to be great here...but now I'm thinkin' late December is the best. Are you returning from Australia?

Enjoy the golf, there's just got to be a stormy day after the millenium for Civ.

	29-12-1999 06:26									#18
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hey Sten it is good to see you back..... as far as OCC goes Aurelius... its not hard to win but nearly impossible to beat or come close to Paul's record as he is the OCC king.

Start building colossus after you have built the two warriors for martial law.... got to get the extra science down as fast as possible.... and then even if you have your three trade routes established.... sometimes a new commodity will come up.... if it does build another caravan and send it out.

The computer has this thing of allowing you some extra commodities even though in theory you will still only have three trade routes.

The extra 200 beakers and gold are an added bonus and sometimes even more. As is with all trade... if you are lucky enough to trade to a civ on a different continent especially the germans in the 4whale game... do it as the bonus is way more than trading on the same continent. cheers and good luck in fact i am about to embark on a new game myself ala OCC

	29-12-1999 12:23									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

War4ever,

I'm not about to challenge Paul's record. I'm lucky to have 1922 as my best AC year in OCC. I win regularly now. But cutting 119 years from my personal record seems impossible. But that doesn't mean I'm not trying to break 1900

My problem with the four whales comparison game is I can't seem to download the damn thing--and I'll never find 4 frickin' whales on my own. It's either browser incompatible or I have a computer problem. I go to Paul's page and place the mouse on the hyperlink and I get Civil[followed by ascii.] Any suggestions would be welcome.

Hey War4ever, tell us about your impending OCC game.

And Good luck.

Aurelius.

	29-12-1999 19:00									#20
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It sounds like your broser tries to open the saved game as a text file. Try right-clicking on the url. From the pop-up menu select "save target as". I hope that's the right option; I have the Dutch version of IE and am just translating the menu option in English. If that also doesn't work maybe you should let us know what browser you are using.

	30-12-1999 00:55									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Aurelius - send me an email with your email address and I'll send you an unzipped copy of it. (I haven't checked my home email in a month, so if you did that already, my apologies) I have a copy here at work, so if you want to get started on it sooner, send me an email at kcarlson@jurika.com and I'll get right back to you.