24-12-1999 00:36									#1
	Ally Management Increase Your PM Length

This is probably a complex question, but how does requesting gifts affect an alliance (alliance reputation?) I've noticed that they are too busy to chat with my civ after some gift giving. But are they likely to request gifts at a later time? Say during the space race?

It seems that an ally is always willing to give a gift after an exchange of science.

Ultimately, I'm wondering if there is some ally management trick that might help my OCC game in the late years....like after I have space flight

Thanks, Aurelius

	24-12-1999 02:23									#2
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I have pretty good luck mostly by just trading with them regularly.

If they get in a fight, I have to declare war too but all I really do is periodically provide units - they get pissed though if all you provide is obsolete stuff.

I don't ally with any civ that's next to me.

	24-12-1999 06:54									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hi BlackJack

Wow, I rarely give allies units. Of course, I rarely offer gifts unless they make reasonable demands. Does this improve their attitude towards you?

Concerning obsolete units, when you offer the unit, do they actually reply with hostility? Or is it something you've noticed in the reputation stats? Truely curious. I love to see new dialog boxes and I thought I'd seen everything!

Yeah, I don't have a problem with going to war against an non-allied AI when an ally requests help. It's when the Ally requests help against another AI that I'm allied with that gives me trouble. Of course, maybe you only ally with one other AI (no neighbors.) This would make sense.

BTW, in OCC games, I use those obsolete units to rushbuy new units or city improvements by disbanding through the city box. But I like your idea of giving them to the allies

In my last game, my ally started demanding lots and lots of gold. I declined. Next thing I knew...really...within the turn...I was at war with them. First time I went from allied to war within a turn. I won the game with my best AC year (1963.) Moral of the story for me is develope science fast before the other civs can affectively attack--maybe this is Paul's or Smash's or Sten's idea-- it worked well.

Thanks, Aurelius

	29-12-1999 00:39									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Aurelius - I have had good success with regularly trading maps with AI allies. It helps you keep track of their development and makes them think you are being cooperative with out giving them anything they didn't already know.

I will also give them growth techs like Construction or Sanitation and peaceful government techs like Rep or Demo (after SoL) with one primary purpose - make my trade bonuses bigger.

I will also give allies (or weak civs) good defensive military techs like gunpowder and conscription; if you are good at war (chokepoints, terrain, focused attacks) it won't matter to you, but the AI's will have a tough time if they are at war with each other.

	29-12-1999 03:21									#5
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Sten Sture.... its no wonder my warmongering has hurt my AC strategy.... i still refuse to give the ai anything.... can't seem to shake that mentality.

perhaps i should be nice to the ai but everytime i am and then request a gift.. they just tell me i am greedy and break the alliance.

Either that or i have to come to my allies defense as he decides that with my backing of him he can piss everyone else off and bring me into wars and breaking other treaties i have.

I find it much easier to not have allies and to just extort money or techs from everyone else.... I guess Mongols by nature are just surly creatures

	29-12-1999 04:30									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Three good points Sten. Though I empathize with War4ever. Still, in ac games, allies are essential when your behind in science. Man, the AI allies have gift-given me Electronics when I had accumulated all the shields for redundant WS five turns earlier and haven't researched Corporation yet! Gotta have allies.)

Concerning the Sten's first point, map trading: I've heard that it makes the ally happy, but they usually break off discussion with a 'tete for tete' goodbye. So I don't get to request a gift--I need that 'rush' money--but I'll experiment.

The second point about giving Construction and Sanitation away brings a smug look to my 'Joe camel' face! I love that kind of thinkin'.

Concerning giving away gunpowder and conscription to waring allies, you Greek dog! Beware of SF-townies bearing gifts. If I ever take up multiplayer, I'll remember the name of Sten Sture.

	29-12-1999 04:46									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

W4ever - another advantage of Allies is that you can't demand tribute in Rep or Demo. In MGE Civ, you can't get a ton of allies like in v2.42, so Allies aren't quite as important. (you Canucks are so War-like! )

Aurelius - (what a beautiful day today!)
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited December 28, 1999).]

	29-12-1999 05:00									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

Sten, and my mountain bike is misappropriated 250 miles away!

	29-12-1999 07:25									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Can somone tell me what Sten and Aruelius are talking about?

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Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	29-12-1999 12:04									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Hey Genghis, have you tried OCC yet? I just won in 1954--can't break the 1900 barrier yet though.

later.
[This message has been edited by Aurelius (edited December 29, 1999).]

	30-12-1999 00:48									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Genghis - sorry to do this to you, but click here ==> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin...ast?query=94117

I bet War4 is upset that he is north of you and has to deal with temperatures in 40s!

Have you guys tried the four whale save that you can download from Apolyton? If you don't want to mess with the Zipped file, I could send you the full version from here. It is only 43k or something like that. Let me know.

	30-12-1999 01:55									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

HI Sten - if you could email me the 4 whale game, I'd appreciate it. I've been having some problems downloading it (forgive me, I'm not the most computer savvy person).

BlackJack - when you say you don't ally with any civ next to you, is this in the OCC game? And if so, what do you do with the civs that are close to you?

Crow

	30-12-1999 03:01									#13
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Crow@ - sent. Let me know how it goes. I have played that start about 20 times but never even beaten 1850, and that is with having the map memorized. Good Luck. I think Paul did 1821 on his first try and then 1500 something after he knew the map. I am going to give it one more try this weekend.

	30-12-1999 14:14									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The best I did in the four whales game was in the early 1800s. The 1565 landing was in Smash's two whale/two gold game.

	30-12-1999 20:57									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thanks for the clarification Paul. I haven't tried Smash's or Bird's maps yet, maybe I'll do that this weekend. Happy New Year!

	30-12-1999 21:12									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

Thanks for sending that Sten. Maybe I'll have a shot at 1850 in the next millennium, right now I'd be happy with a 1930 landing.

	31-12-1999 06:41									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hey Aruelius, I tried a couple OCC but I can't seem to win, I am not very good or somthing. I don't get space flight anywhere near fast enough. I have been playing the rome SCN. got really into that.

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Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	03-01-2000 06:35									#18
	Put an end to popups!

Hey Genghis,

I lost a game couple days ago...I was so close to winning. It was actually a thrilling defeat. I made one reconnaisance error. The enemy had a ton of howitzers and bombers and fighters and copters, but I had three fortified bombers over fortressed alpine vets in mountains. In my city, I had a vet Aegis. My steath fighers were doing some recouperation. So one turn I didn't recon' and a limping, little AI helicopter snuck in from the tundra and killed a piece of freight that kept the enemy spys at bay. So the enemy got Plastics and Superconductor in one turn and completed their 6.9 ship (39 structures without fusion) in time to land 2 years my 15.9 ship. I actually love it when the AI does something sneaky! OCC demands alot of 'micromanaging' as someone says. Do you have all four OCC wonders? Even this doesn't mean you win, but I haven't won without them.

Aurelius.

	03-01-2000 07:11									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If the 4 are CO, INC, Collossus and Shakes yes I get them.



What is Micro managment? I know what it means but what do you do? what is the prcess?

------------------
Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	03-01-2000 07:16									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sten it's not that cold here and those ai are too greedy for my liking

OF course we are warmongers.... havent' you seen us play hockey

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They call me Mr. Fierce