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Alpha Wolf
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Prince of the Barbarians
Feb 2001
time: 05:14
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In general I dont like Wonders at all. I'd prefer to a national benefit and a feat of wonder to the first to build it. In reality, if one civ built globesat you can bet most of the rest will follow behind. So for this example, the first to build globesat would get an additional 2 hit points per unit for 10 turns since they could see the enemy coming and be prepared or to plan some ambushes. Or even have the benefit last until the other civ builds globesat.
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mosquitodriver
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appleton, wi, usa
Nov 2000
time: 05:14
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thats a great idea, the cheeseheads and the green bay packers will rule the world and all the wonders will be from wisconsin, im going to rewrite history and force the british and french to eat cheese to stop their whining.
eat that!
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Alpha Wolf
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Prince of the Barbarians
Feb 2001
time: 05:14
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likethe brits and frenchies would EVER stop whining.
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History is written by the victor.
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Mike the Nuke
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Oakdale
Oct 2000
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Alpha Wolf on 12-19-2000 11:51 AM
There are so many bogus wonders in this game, that I cant believe you are all arguing over which country they come from. Wonders are supposed to be unique, so how could the WIA, penicillin, or globesat be wonders if more than one country has them? I wish they'd replace Wonders with national improvements that could be bought by any civ. That would also end the arguement on whether Wonders have too much of an unbalancing effect.
What about the Magna Carta, Code of Hammarabi, the TVA, I'd even say the roman road system. These are more worthy of Wonder status.
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I agree 100 (no make that 1000)% I remember in CTP-1 seeing Contraception as a Wonder. Wow! What brands (Trojans, etc). Geez, if one civilization can invent the "pill" or "rubber", whay can't others. Even 3rd world countries now have devices of contraception available. I think the Wonders should only improve happiness through pride of that civilization in it's Wonder(s) it has built. Globesat was always stupid. Only one civilization/country can develop satelites to expose the planet? Gee, I guess the Russians (in the old USSR) had no satelite data of the U.S. Then, of course, 'Cloaking' came along and all civilizations/countries were "cloaked" from that civilization/country that had 'Globesat', even if they didn't research 'cloaking'. TRASH the Wonders for all purposes other than happiness (through national pride). All other benefits (food, military strength, defense, etc) should be researched and be able to be researched by all. And, yes, for all those just dying to tell me that Cloaking (and possibly Globesat) are not part of CTP-2, but part of CTP-1, I say, "no S___!" I was just using them as an example. I do not yet own CTP-2 (it does not have Hot Seat yet), but it still uses Wonders for things other than 'happiness' through pride of achievement. Hoover Damn, I believe, is a Wonder. Look at all the special things the U.S has that no other civilization/country has. just because of Hoover Damn. Same applies for the Empire State Building, Eifel Tower, Leaning Tower of Pisa (spelling?), pyramids, stonehenge (scientists today still aren't sure of it's purpose).
And after reading all the stuff on this site....I'm glad I haven't bought CTP-2. Same old stuff (with a couple of 'twists'), different cover. Seems to need patches to fix the patches. The Jury, except for those given copies from the manufactureer, should still be (way) out on this game.
I personally bought CTP-1 (after having played Civ1 & Civ2) because it offered sea colonies and space (unfortunately neither was done exceptionally well and space turned out to be nothing more than space stations and has been (rightfully so) left out of CTP2. I was hoping to colonize other planets (aka Alpha Centuri, Civ2-TOT). CTP-1 also seemed to offer a few new (or maybe improved) units and better graphics. It turns out that the Sid Meir group did a much better job (heads and shoulders) above the Activision folks at rating non-imaginary (real life units) such as Battleships, Aircraft Carriers (and having a supply of aircraft for this ship), etc. Both games had flaws with "bow and Arrow guys" shooting down jet aircraft and taking out tanks, etc. CTP-1 seemed to have a better trade method (in my opinion) than the Civ2 game, though the latter was more realistic in making sure that you got the trading vehicle (camel or truck) to the location to be traded with.
CTP-2 (by reading what I've read all over this site) seems to be CTP-1 with more diplomacy with my computer (excuse me....computer AI) and more 'bugs'.
Hey, if they start working on CTP3, they might have it out in time for next Christmas (a little sarcasm) and CTP4 could be out before Christmas 2002 (a little added sarcasm).
"Of course, it's just a game, only a game. Any similarity between this game and anything in 'real life' is purely coincidental."
and....
"Ho, ho, ho ....Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night"
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The Kaiser
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Stoke-on-Trent, England
Dec 1999
time: 05:14
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Yes, I think I'll join the "post about not posting" club!
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Paulypav
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Shirley, NY, USA
Oct 2000
time: 05:14
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Actually, it has been stated by Activision employees in earlier posts that they wanted to avoid potential lawsuits by avoiding similarities where possible. One area in which this has been done is wonders. If one or two wonders are the same, no big deal. If they were all the same there would be some legal questions. I believe that in CTP I, they had some legal right to the Civilization name, but no longer, thus it is Call to Power II, not Civilization Call to Power II. As far as I know, there are no active legal actions, but it always makes sense to prevent them from happening if possible.
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The American people have now spoken, but its going to take a little while to determine exactly what
they said. President Clinton
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skorpion59
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
May 1999
time: 23:14
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I (as well as Harlan) spoke extensively with Activision about all this during the discussions concerning what is and isn't allowed in the Shipping Scenarios. It was made quite clear that Activision no longer has a license (thus the rights) to the Civilization name or any similarities thereof. They are on very sticky legal grounds and have done the best they can with what they can.
Having said that, if you simply have to have the Civ2 wonders, movies, units, etc, then go play Civ2. Or better yet, make your own since it isn't to likely they will sue an individual.
This is CtP2 which is an ENTIRELY different game and one, which I might add, that stands on its own.
On to more productive things....
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Alpha Wolf
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Prince of the Barbarians
Feb 2001
time: 05:14
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Out of curiosity, if some of the helpful Activision emloyees help the mod makers and the mods look to close to civ2, would that still get them in trouble?
I thought the original licence was for CtP1 and a single followup title.
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History is written by the victor.
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The Kaiser
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Stoke-on-Trent, England
Dec 1999
time: 05:14
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The original deal was for 1 game and 1 expansion disc.
Some say including myself, that CTP2 is little more than a expansion disc. So if Activision had admitted this and released it as an add-on disc, it would have saved them a lot of these copyright issues.
I guess by doing it the way they have, it let's them charge more money and keep more of it for themselves!
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Keygen
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Athens, Hellas
Jan 2000
time: 07:14
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The Piramids exist for more than 3000-4000 years.
The time they where built they were surely a wonder of the world. People still go there from all over the world to admire them!
Well, 5 of the 7 Ancient Wonders of the world were Greek but they only Greek wonder is the Labyrinth which is accually not one of the 7 ancient ones. Labyrinth was a mythological place where the Minoans where droping young people as sacrifice to the Minotaur (which in Greek means Minoan's bull by the way  ) and can't think how this could be related with free caravans, maybe I am missing something  .
As for the Empire Building I thing it was a great achivement the time was builded. Maybe not a wonder or maybe a wonder, why not.
Regarding the American-Europian war that had started on this topic I think both have some share on what is fair. It is true that the Americans gave a great help to the Europians to the two world wars. Perhaps it is true that the Europians might have been enslaved to the Germans (which are Europians too  ) if the Americans wouldn't help but if they hadn't, and the Germans had taken the entire Europe then the American would share the world with them and not with themselves right now . And do not forget what the Russians had contribute to the WWII. They beated the Japanese on the early stages of the war and they crashed the Germans. And the British cicked Adolf's butt in the Battle of England and in Egypt! Not to mention the contribution of other nations to the great war, French, Australians, Polish, Serbs, Greeks etc.
Do not forget that most of the American people and their ancestors are comming from the Europian continent. England, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Russia, Poland, Spain, France, Greece etc. and South American who have come mostly from Spain or Portugal too.
I consider most of the Americans more or less as Europians. Yeah I know that many Americans come from different places than Europe like Africa, China, Middle East, India etc but their society and economical model looks like a fresh and optimized Western Europian copy with only difference the luck of some Europian style . Am I getting bad? No just teasing. To say the truth you have managed in a century to kick our Europian butt and extremely contribute to scientific developement which is maybe the most important aspect of the humanity. We love you but do not forget that you own a bit of your success to us the Europians so give us some attention and include less American achievements to the games and more "world" achievents .
[This message has been edited by Keygen (edited December 27, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Keygen (edited December 27, 2000).]
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jkadabomb
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Alright all you ppl complaining about why not all civs can build all the wonders. Think of as if building a wonder makes that civ the first to develop it and others soon follow. Like WIA, the rest of the nations get one but you just dont know it and you dont get the benifits since you didnt build it first. Makes sense? No, but ppl need to stop complaining and enjoy the game.
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Alpha Wolf
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Prince of the Barbarians
Feb 2001
time: 05:14
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I get paid and am American. Does that make me a pro-American? 
wonder this, wonder that, blah, blah, blah.... People want wonders and all the good ones were taken, so Activision took what they could. Personally, I've added Code of hammurabi, magna carta, the national guard. Oooops, I need more american wonders
Cant we all just get along????????????? Except the French, they can go away
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History is written by the victor.
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21-12-2000 10:53
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