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Jen Dragon
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Lubbock, Tx. USA
Sep 2000
time: 05:14
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I agree 100%, they tried to much to stay away from civ 1 and 2's wonders, thay obviously didn't take suggestions very well, like you said remade ctp1's wonders for expense reasons, deffinatly not because people requested their return in ctp2, If I remember correctly they got a little flack over the wonders in ctp1, and still didn't change much.
P.S. if they wait 5 years and there hasen't been a civ game in the last 3 or 4 years you will buy ctpIII.
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wheathin
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Of *course* they couldn't use the Civ2 Wonders. They are trying hard enough as it is to avoid trademark-copyright issues with Civ2 as it is. They left out the Chariot, for that very reason - the *Chariot*, for Gods sake! - even though the Chariot is one of the most universal units of the ancient period, one used in EVERY ancient era game.
The Civ2 Wonders don't even correspond to the Seven Ancient Wonders very well, so Activision can't use that as an excuse either. No Mausoleum, for example. And, even if they could use the Civ2 Wonders, they couldn't use similar effects...
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mosquitodriver
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appleton, wi, usa
Nov 2000
time: 05:14
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all i have to say to you redjon is until the europeans become the leaders of the free world dont complain about america being represented so much in the game. america made the modern world what it is today with some help from the others but shouldnt the leader get due credit like it did in the game. after all it is an american game, heck i think all the civ games are american, why dont the europeans try making one aye?
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The Kaiser
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Stoke-on-Trent, England
Dec 1999
time: 05:14
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Wheathin
Is that true about the Chariot Unit?
I know some of the names have been changed like Musketeer's into Infantrymen, but to leave out a unit seems a bit extreme.
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Dyzee400
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Long Island, NY, USA
Dec 2000
time: 05:14
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How the heck can you copyright a chariot?
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wheathin
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Obviously you can't copyright a chariot. But the combination of all the elements could lead to a copyright problem. Chariots and Elephants and Dragoons and Barracks and Granaries and Libraries and all the Civ2 Wonders might be too much. Especially if you add the similar game mechanics, TBS design, large overlap in technologies, governments. The game designers (and their legal department) decided that some things would just have to be left out, and so they left out the Chariot.
You can't copyright the color red, or the color white, or a long wavy line. But if you combine them all, the Coca Cola company will start to get mighty nervous, and might sue you on general principles.
As to the US bit: 50 years? gimme a break. The US won WW1 for you - without fresh meat for the grinder, France would have fallen, and Britain would have sued for peace. Of course, it would mean no Hitler...
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Paulypav
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Shirley, NY, USA
Oct 2000
time: 05:14
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Is the U.S. overrepresented. Yes. Is it a crime. No. It is a game made in the United States, by Americans. Frankly, this diatribe has gotten pretty old by this point in time. You have ranted and raved about this time and again with little effect. To be perfectly honest, the United States has dominated the modern era whereas other eras have been represented by a number of strong civilizations. I would like to see more ancient wonders from greece and rome but they are all in Civ II.
I seem to recall one thread asking for alternate modern era wonders and there were very few options that weren't American or already in Civ II. Since Activision is trying to avoid making the game too much like Civ II some things have been cut. They can get away with a few wonders and some units and advances, but if they go too far it could get ugly.
Should the Empire State Building be a wonder, probably not although there have been some decent arguments supporting it in other threads. Is it unfair to give Americans the credit for The Agency when the British equivalent (M6 right?) is older, no, but then again British Intelligence doesn't have the reputation (Infamous) that the CIA has. British Intelligence is the 2nd or 3rd best in the world (definitely behind the Mossad of Israel and probably even with or ahead of the CIA).
The Emancipation Act itself is American, but the freedom from slavery is hardly American, but is it really British either. I would imagine that slavery was ended by many civilizations early on, perhaps even before the British Empire came around. However, has any other civilization created a document or had a significant event that resulted in the freedom of Slaves. I'm sure there is, but I am unaware of any having been taught in American schools. Personally, I think it should become the Spartacus wonder.
That still leaves the U.S. with 5. Oh well, I guess that says something.
------------------
“The American people have now spoken, but it’s going to take a little while to determine exactly what
they said.” — President Clinton
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Alpha Wolf
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Prince of the Barbarians
Feb 2001
time: 05:14
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There are so many bogus wonders in this game, that I cant believe you are all arguing over which country they come from. Wonders are supposed to be unique, so how could the WIA, penicillin, or globesat be wonders if more than one country has them? I wish they'd replace Wonders with national improvements that could be bought by any civ. That would also end the arguement on whether Wonders have too much of an unbalancing effect.
What about the Magna Carta, Code of Hammarabi, the TVA, I'd even say the roman road system. These are more worthy of Wonder status.
------------------
History is written by the victor.
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blinder2451
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FTC, CO
Dec 2000
time: 05:14
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The wonders are definitely ridiculous, but even more ridiculous, is that Firaxis and Micropose aren't collaborating on Civilization.
Until they do, it reminds me of the Civil War. Mark my words, 'Civ3' and 'CTP3' and all the rest will never be as fun as Civ2 and the ones that come before it.
I enjoyed the graphics of Civ2 and Civ1, and they tied into the gameplay. Now it's like I'm playing STARS! in the Civ world, and that's not why I enjoy Civilization.
Those who enjoyed STARS! will enjoy CTP2, but the rest of us will just have to bear with these HALF-civs that come out of half companies.
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skorpion59
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
May 1999
time: 23:14
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Got to agree with ATA 100%.
It is a game folks. They are not writing a history book. They are adding some functionality to make the game better.
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Pangaea
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Dec 2000
time: 05:14
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Wern't the Hittites counquered by the Assyrians?
several times?
heh
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18-12-2000 23:28
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