16-11-2000 04:20									#1
	7th POLL: CTP2: Did it match your expectations? Put an end to popups!

dont vote if you dont have the game


results below
[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited January 16, 2001).]

	18-11-2000 02:14									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

may ask who voted "I will return the game" and why?
(no the script does not keep a track of who voted what, just who voted... )

	18-11-2000 13:36									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I see that Jeffrey Morris will be returning his copy.How surprising!

I am sure that this comment isn't just a cheap shot at a competitor. So how about a few commments or an assessment of the game Jeffrey? (I know that this means that you will actually have to try the game now )

JimMac

	19-11-2000 03:03									#4
	Put an end to popups!

From where did you get that Jeff-returned-the-game stuff?

Ata

	19-11-2000 03:13									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

from the comments
http://apolyton.net/cgi-bin/ubb-pol...wComments&id=11

	19-11-2000 05:14									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ohhh.

	19-11-2000 05:26									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yeah, I saw that naff comment.
I hope it was a joke amongst developers rather than a really cheap shot.
If the Firaxis people really are that petty, I'll be thinking twice about spending money on Civ III when it finally comes out.

Turk

	19-11-2000 10:37									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Tuerkuem: Nice bluff pal. You and I both know you will shell out whatever it takes to get Civ3 when its released (hopefully in our lifetime).

	19-11-2000 15:04									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

a couple of amazing comments(if you see them together)

MWatts

quote: I will return the game If Best Buy will tack it back. Looks and plays way too much like CIV II for me. Don't like graphics for the interfaces or the way they are laid out. CTPI was better.

markusf

quote: Not really worth the money Its boring. Take the public works + army/military and put it into civ2. Then we would have one hell of a game.

	19-11-2000 18:07									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Mark, can people that stupid really type ? Im amazed ! Just kidding...

	19-11-2000 19:06									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

i just posted them to show the difference of opinions on could read in a place like this...

	20-11-2000 01:34									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

its everybody own opinion

	20-11-2000 01:50									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

I wasn't a fan of CTP1. But when I saw someone from Firaxis was inspired enough to make a joke against it I figured the CTP2 people must be on to something and went ahead and bought it. Glad I did. Best Civ game in every way -- the gold standard.

But no caravans? Alas, I'm a caravan freak. That's just me. However, I have yet to try the joys of pirating, which is apparently what you get instead in CTP2.

	20-11-2000 02:34									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You get caravans in CTP2. That is what allows you to trade goodies and make some extra cash. You can also pirate them and steal some cash, if thats what you like.

Smooshies

	20-11-2000 04:55									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Um, can someone please delete my comment? I made a mistake in saying the developers were cowardly. I am sorry if I offended anyone. It really isn't that bad of a game. After reading some posts, I figured some stuff out that I didn't know. Can I change my vote?

	20-11-2000 05:23									#17
	Suffering from ads?

vote and comment erased. you can vote again.

	20-11-2000 19:01									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

As for the different opinions, there were also opinions on CTP1 from "It sucks hard!" to "I love it, the best game ever!". Just don't understand how people saying thums down on CTP1, love CTP2. Did some readings at SidGames, didn't actually seem to be a good game - bad comments there, but it is excellent!

------------------
Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

	20-11-2000 19:31									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I felt CTP I was a great game, a flawed game but a great game but with many flaws, still it had some greatness into it.

I just got my copy of CTP II

After 3 hours of play i have mix feelings, on one hand the game as a quality feel that the first didn't had, on the other i have a hard time with the interface.

It's taking me forever to move an army into a city and redo a new army with some of the units that are already in the city, how many mouse clicks is that supposed to take ?

I don't see any warnings when one of my city is about to revolt if i don't use the mayor.

I constantly have to scroll back from the oldest messages to the newest because the window will not stay on the more recent messages.

Does it gives me anything to keep happiness at 80 instead of 73 ?

I realize i need more time to get use to the game and i intend to give it plenty of time.

Also after some time the AI would not agree to anything I proposed, but that as probably more to do with me constantly violating cease fire agreements and backstabing him whenever i could, i did start the game with good peacefull intentions but i guess hold habits are hard to break

	20-11-2000 19:43									#20
	Tired of ads?

I forgot; it looks like the map doesn't zoom out as much as before and when zoomed out it becomes very hard and very frustrating to move units with the mouse, i almost have given up on it and i think i will be using the keyboard

	21-11-2000 10:29									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:

I don't see any warnings when one of my city is about to revolt if i don't use the mayor.

no messages in the message tab? no sign of revolting on the map?
-------------------------------------------------------

What i meant was that their is nothing to tell me when the happiness level drops under 72 in a particular city and i need to take actions to prevent a possible revolt, in CTP I the "Next City" icon lighted. Getting a message after the city as revolted is not of much use.

	22-11-2000 10:50									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wel, if you put on the tutorial it gives you a message when your happiniess reaches 73. So there is a tutorial.slc file, i guess you just need to find the part for happiniess messages in the tutorial and copy it into the right one. There are alot of other nice messages in the tutorialmode as well (easy dificulty sets the tutorial on automatically).

	22-11-2000 00:45									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

I didn't like CTP I at all: terrible interface, awful AI, and the stealth units were extremely overpowered. There were excellent ideas in it, but the realization was extremely flawed.

CTP II is much better. It still has significant problems, IMO: the diplomacy module gives poor feedback, and opponents respond oddly to overtures. (I spent one entire game, just for the hell of it, offering trading treaties to an AI opponent who always viewed me favorably and liked my diplomatic receptions, but responded negatively each time.) You still can't choose which stacked unit attacks an opponent's current unit, and vice versa.

But the AI is much improved, ease-of-use is a lot better (I still wish I could get to any city by just doubleclicking on its name), the stealth units appear much later in the game, and can now be seen by any other stealth unit. Overall, I like the game quite a bit: well worth playing.

	22-11-2000 03:07									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I have made tests with different level of happiness, checking how much my cities grows and it looks like happiness is part of the growth calculation, altough I have no idea what the exact formula is, I hope somebody will figure it out. So not being tell about cities ready to revolt will probably be not that big deal because contrary to CTP 1 i will not try to keep happiness at 73 and i will probably be using the mayors after i get acquinted more with the game.

I have figured out how to move my units - Thanks MarkG. (I am sometimes blind and very impatient)

My overall impression of the game so far is very good but I will wait to have played a lot more before I answer the poll.

	22-11-2000 23:33									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wouldn't know and may never know, couldn't find CTP 1 in the shops here either.

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

	23-11-2000 14:15									#28
	Inflate your Upload Space

well in england we dont get the game till 2moro! so my hope are high!

	25-11-2000 14:53									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Why oh why did you remove the CtP tech tree it was very good. Especially compared to this one. (I mean fascism in the renaissance? etc. etc.) Why not taking the old tech tree with modifications in compliance with the new victory conditions? (BTW I'd like to be able to change the name of my empire. There are lots of nations not covered by the gaeme, for example the one where I live)

Just my two cents.

Regards

Starfighter08

	27-11-2000 18:25									#30
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

MarkG

What do you think of the game , and those dissapointing AI comments made by some?