10-01-2001 17:42									#1
	The honeymoon is over... Get a bigger avatar today!

Well, seems like the honeymoon between Activision and the Apolyton community is over. Time to file the divorce papers and get everything settled. The MOD community will get the unthankful job of trying to please the diehard CTPII public and the rest will just throw it in the (drawer/closet/bin/trash/attic/cellar...make your choice)

Then everyone can go merrily on his or her way.

Having burned myself with CTP I decided to wait for a moment to see how it panned out. The usual "CTPII rocks!" at the start, some nitpicking "where's xxxx?" at the start and the usual "let's wait for the patch first". Patch got released, some bugs fixed but main problem still remained: gameplay. You see folks, gameplay's one thing you can't easily fix with a patch and the truth is that CTPII doesn't have it. And what you don't have you can't fix. I experienced that for myself in CTP, everything was nicely polished and so on but it didn't have the factor that's important for all strategy games: Just one more turn. CTP didn't have it, and seeing that CTPII looks 'veeeeery similar' I didn't believe that CTPII would have 'it'.

The truth is that CTPII was just what everyone thought right from the start: a souped up data disk that should have been released as such, not as a 'sequel'. Even after they bought it, people just wanted to believe that it was better than CTP, SMAC or Civ2. There's term for this type of behaviour in pyschology: cognitive dissonance.

In short: Glad I waited and saved my money...


P.S
Does this mean we're gonna see the:
"It's official, CTPII sucks"-thread now?
[This message has been edited by CapTVK (edited January 10, 2001).]

	10-01-2001 19:17									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Humm...Good point Captain.

	10-01-2001 19:56									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

i would make a long post about all the positive threads be people here, the good reviews from big sites that ctp2 got when ctp1 didnt, etc etc etc but i think i'm going to do what lots of people are doing right now instead posting posts like yours: play ctp2

	11-01-2001 06:02									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Gotta agree with MarkG on this one. CTP2 is a good game. Unfortunately it just needs some tweaking as die-hard civers are probably WAY WAY better than the testers Activision had.

Now, if only I could find a way to hide CTP2 on work's network and stop callers from calling the helpdesk, then I could play all day!

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	11-01-2001 20:44									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

MarkG,

I've already given up on reviews, usually they're only played for a couple of days (if that many) before the reviewer makes up his mind. And in most cases all games seem to get positive marks, no matter how poor they turn out to be once you've been playing them for awhile. I did have the opportunity to play CTP2 myself and I have to say that CTP2 should have been called CTP v.1.20 and released as a data disk.
And I'm not saying that CTP2 is bad, it's just an average civ clone. Nothing less but also nothing more.

Enjoy CTP2 while you can, you know it won't last...


And while you're going to play CTP2 I'll be playing a Civ2-MP game in simultaneous movement, happy gaming!

	11-01-2001 23:25									#7
	Support Apolyton

CapTVK, you probably might know that i'm not the bigest fan of reviews
still, one has to aknowledge that ctp2 has goten better reviews(in average) than ctp1. and some of the bad had ridicullous errors....

	12-01-2001 03:18									#8
	Remove this text

I personally think that CTPII is good and I am a die hard civ fan.

	15-01-2001 04:08									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

[quote]Originally posted by CapTVK on 01-11-2001 10:44 AM
MarkG,

<>

A rather cynical view of reviewers, which probably isn't accurate. Many of us have our favorites which remain on the computer long after we've imported new games for review; but of course, reviewers can't keep playing everything they like. There aren't enough hours in the day.

However, I did like CTP II, with reservations, while I pretty much panned CTP I when it first appeared. I'm still playing CTP II, with its patch. And I still prefer Alpha Centauri, with the mods that help balance the game; but now that there are mods out for CTP II, I just may go ahead and install 'em.

	15-01-2001 05:17									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hi CapTVK,
I was just in the works in writing a message with the same title, Honeymoon over, that's exactly what I experience after about 3 weeks of playing. After the usual early "crush" where you are not so sure about the content since the game is rather complex, you keep going, but after a while when you discover that the game content, is thin like an egg shell. All those small things like dissapearing space shuttles, corporate branch production stealing malfunction and other stuff that are not there, and then of course the most scorned part of the game, the AI (virtually non-existent).

I play less and less and I am confident that when I get Space Empires IV from the US, ctp2 will probably be uninstalled.

Regards Tassadar

	16-01-2001 10:00									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

All good reviews and bad reviews aside - the only reason I bought CTP2 was for multiplay. The multiplay function on CTP2 is definately broke. My question is this: Why did Activision advertise CTP2 as fully multiplayable when in fact it is not? I've heard the CTP2 testers at Activison only tested (in depth) the single play side of the game and only made a cursory review/test of the multiplay side....and yet the game was released as, and I quote "So that you can engage your friends in global domination, Call to Power II supports several modes of multiplayer games over many types of connections including Internet, TCP/IP, IPX, LAN." Of course Activision did not state that a multiplay game can actually be finished!

	16-01-2001 08:26									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I've always been curious about those who reveiew games.

Poitive reviews:

1. Did they have to buy the game or did they receive 'free' copies from the manufacturer?

2. If they bought the game, were they afraid to admit it being bad for fear of looking 'stupid' for buying it in the fist place?

3. How long have they tried it and what are thier personal interests and preferences. (example: If I had bought the game a would have rated it poorly because I prefer the Hot Seat option and it has no such option).

3a. Have they tried all the game options/modes and played them out (ie multiplayer, LAN, PBEM and Hot Seat {which this game does not have}, various game strategies (science, technology routes) to victory, etc.) This would take a considerable amount of time and items 3 (above) would also play heavily on thier personal bias.

Negative reviews:

1. What are thier personal preferences for the game (as I described in item #3 above)

2. Are they being negative just to be negative?


Personally I read all the reviews to see if the game has options (ie Hot Seat, etc) and things that I may be interested in (reguardless of how the reveiewer rates these). My family and I enjoyed playing CTP1 (in Hot Seat Mode) even with it's many realism flaws. There were many things which could have been done better, but it was entertaining and still is (at times). None of us have any interest in AI based games. AI's are almost always STUPID in games like these! We utilized the AI's in are Hot Seat games solely as added players ('cannon fodder').

I thoughly enjoy this site and thank all those who have posted (positives and negatives) on this site about the game. It has saved me the $50 I would have spent on a game I definately would not have enjoyed!

Everyone has thier opionions and rights to those opinions and those are mine.

Thanks again to all of you who have posted all the valuable opinions and information that has appeared on this site. Acitivison folks gave us little but excuses for thier 'short comings' and now seldom (if ever) respond on this site any more.

I continue to follow the site messages and hope for something good (at least good in my opinion).

There are a lot of "smart computer programmer folks' out there who could probalbly make some programming changes to the game to improve various game play items within the game. I have read a 'ton' of them on the CTP1 message section. I almost downloaded many of them to try them. Then I read how many 'crashed', worked improperly, or 'locked up' the computer, so I passed. This guy, Wes, seems to be very 'handy' at this stuff, but (thankfully) he posted results as he progressed, and identified many problems. I do not buy a game to have to modify it. Activision, through resposibility, respect and concern for thier customers, should make the modifications and create them as 'mod packs' (this does not include patches to fix game flaws/bugs or to install options that should have been in the game in the first place). Then they should support them and guarentee them, not just 'pass the buck' or give the'I don't know what went wrong' garbage or 'no response' routine.

	20-01-2001 20:56									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, the title of this thread is more fitting than ever....

Mind you, I didn't expect Activision to actually state that the MOD-community should figure it out for themselves. In a way it is polite to make a statement you'll stop supporting a certain piece of software . But it looks more like a kick up the old wazoo for the players who bought CTP2.