21-01-2001 09:46									#1
	Column #150; By MarkG Got spare money?

It's time to face facts and move on with the Civilization series, says MarkG in his latest article entitled "Goodbye Activision; Now Civers, Let's Get To Work.

Comments/questions weclomed here.

----------------
Dan; Apolyton CS

	21-01-2001 11:48									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Marko, your article appropriately reads like a funeral dirge or requiem for Actvision's part in the Civ series. Clearly, their most loyal, critical, and capable fan-base resides at the Apolyton boards. To essentially insult all the people here by issuing a statement that even one-ups the Clinton administration for evasion and absence of accountability is not only condesending it is also akin to commiting hari-kari with their customer base.

How many games does the average gamer buy? How close-knit is the gaming community? Anyone in the know also realizes that this kind of malfeasance by a game publisher does not go unpunished. Just months ago I owned shares of ATVI and sold them for a profit bc I figured the xmas season was going to be a downer for games and all tech stuff and I'm glad I did. And I'm very pleased I have no interest now in ATVI whatsoever. I think ATVI is going to have hell to pay among the "adult" gamers. A few years from now they will be relegated to making Pokemon and other chirlish games for NES and gameboy because it's "just too hard to please that literate gaming community at Apolyton."

Frankly, they should have just said that and owed up that they were overawed by the challenge of producing a quality product for intelligent consumers. I think you were balanced in your comments and from your perspective, knowing what you do about the industry, I'm sure your statements are still a scathing rebuke of the stunt they pulled. I just wished to be a bit more blunt.

Thanks to all your effort to make this a great site for gamers.

------------------
'Blood will run'

	21-01-2001 12:35									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It is sad that Activision chooses to take the money and run, but we will see how much they profit in the long run. With their reputation here for producing brilliantly inovative programs that still fail to function, I'm not surprized they're looking elsewhere.

That said, Civ 3 is something I continued to hope for...I trust Sid, and Firaxis will, at the very least, see that the game is not defective as CtP was.

-KhanMan

	21-01-2001 13:08									#4
	Support Apolyton

MarkG:
First I'd like to say that your unfortunately right. A boycott will not cause Activision to patch the game. But it will hopefully have other effects. Unlike you there are many of us who not only play strategy games but also play FPS's, sports games, RPG's etc. and will hopefully inform Activision that thier decision, will not only hurt thier revenue in future TBS games, but in other sectors of the game market as well. Other wise TBS games will continue to be shafted, by companies who cut thier losses and pull out.

	21-01-2001 13:30									#5
	Remove this text

Unfortunately, an increasing number of people are beginning to believe what SEEMS to be the truth - software marketing and distribution is "all money and NO customer relations."

BUT there have been Activision staff members on this forum as Markos has stated.

	21-01-2001 13:31									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

As far as I see it this is the bottom line:

Activision tried to compete with Sid Meier and failed horribly!!! Their response to our inquiries? Basically "screw you all, we're moveing on to other projects."

I really wonder what kind of a response they will recieve from these "new projects" of theirs?????

That said, again, I thank you APOLYTON for giving a spot for the CIV Gamer to "speak whats on his/her mind

	21-01-2001 15:24									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well said, Marko. Thanks for being an honest voice for CTP2 from the start. I was working up a review for this game myself, but never finished it. It oddly defied reviewing -- not really bad and not really great. Too bad Activision is quitting it. But I guess it's like Mark Twain said -- If you have to swallow a frog it's best not to look at it for too long.

	21-01-2001 19:10									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I would like to add something to the article, cause I might be misunderstood


This was not an attempt to judge the overall participation of Activision to the civ genre. Because in that case I should have also talked about the great ideas that CTP1/2 brought, as well as the (good) competition that was created by these two games.
The participation of Activision in the genre was overall positive, no matter if some things didnt work out perfectly.

	21-01-2001 20:14									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Oh well, this is too bad. Anyway, some other company will step up to the plate, or Activision will change it's mind, because I got $50 bucks in my pocket, and so do all of you.

Too bad all you programing whiz types can't stop modifying CTP and start a game of your own...

	22-01-2001 06:34									#12
	Suffering from ads?

Markos, your column was an excellent read. I admire your restraint in the comments towards Activision as a whole and agree with your comments on CTP2 and it's team. The team did do a good job with CTP1 & 2, and they are good games. It's just unfortunate that Activision pulled the rug out from under them and won't allow the team to make the great game that we all hoped for. The team did a great job in competing against Civ2. For a Civ-game it was a good effort, but unfortunate that corporate politics and profit destroyed our (the Civers) image of the game. As for Activision the company, it can rot in the foul stench of its capitalist money-grabbing policies. In future I'm going to be a lot more careful on what game I'm buying. In Australia, at $90 - $110 a pop it's getting expensive. No longer will I bend over, grip the table and take it up the ass!

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	22-01-2001 10:33									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

MarkG, I think what you wrote took a lot of courage. Thanks for writing it.



------------------
phoenixcager
------------------
of the the Civilization Gaming Network. Visit the CGN Forums

	22-01-2001 11:45									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This Mark Giannopoulous guy is a good writer - who is he? He should post more


------------------
Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

	22-01-2001 19:20									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Here's an absurd idea. We each kick in a few bucks, send them to Mark and Dan, they buy the rights to put out Apolytons' CTP 3, and pay ppl back w/ a good game in the mail. If Activision is seriously not interested, should be cheap enough...free money from an abandoned product line...

Apolyton and the folks that do the programming could even reap some profit instead of working for free.

I think I could personally swing $100 in March or so.

This would be a kick in the pants.

Mark, I thought your story was very well written too, all of it. Print it and hang it on a wall somewhere, don't lose it.

	23-01-2001 02:04									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Thanks again Mark, you said concisely what I (and I'm sure many others) felt.

There are some very good things about the game, it's pretty, I love the combat model, the interface is nice, some nice adaptions from SMAC.

But the downside is substantial, the AI is timid at best, stability is obviously an issue based on the system requirements stated and for crying out loud how hard would it be to fix the scoring?

Great work by the dedicated and talented fixing what shouldn't need fixing. How much are you guys going to bill Activision for your time?

I will play on, but only while the good guys finish Civ3.

	27-01-2001 15:03									#19
	Support Apolyton

i dont want to sound bad, but all this over enthusiasm on civ3 could turn out a disaster....

	27-01-2001 20:45									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

You're right Mark, it might turn into another disaster...but with the way CTP2 turned out, I believe CIV III couldn't possibly be any worse and has the Sid Meir influence of being much better.