06-01-2000 21:22									#1
	Do you use Einsteins? Increase the size of your Attachments

I know I can switch citizens to Elvises to calm the unruly population, but it never occurs to me to switch them to Einsteins or Tax Collectors.

Do you do this? Do you do it often? And under what circumstances? How beneficial is it to do this?

Thanks, as always, in advance.

	06-01-2000 21:40									#2
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I use the science guys in a super science city. Here I'll use 7,8 more citizens for science guys.

Tax citizens... if I dont need a citizen as a science of elvis I'll make him a tax collector. I have 1 in every city. Sometimes 2 but most of the time not more than that.

	06-01-2000 21:43									#3
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For the science city, einsteins can improve science a bunch. You want to use them after the pop grows past 21. You may get more science by exchanging production for science. On occasion, I am racing the ai to get a tech for a wonder. I then go through each city and adjust for the max science. Other than that, I don't bother.

	07-01-2000 10:21									#4
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Sometimes I will use Eins early if I have a size 5 or 6 city and not enough trade squares to keep everyone busy. The extra 3 science can be double the science of having all five workers in the field.

	07-01-2000 10:35									#5
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Einstien's are a must in the science city.
I can't tell you how good it is to have a science city.
I've been able to pump out 300+ beakers per turn from only 1 city.
Without using the Einstiens, it may only be at 200, which still is good but, you can't beat getting 26 future techs, about 1 every 2 turns!

	07-01-2000 10:44									#6
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I'm with SS. Since I micromanage my cities, I will convert somebody to a Einstein when I don't need the extra food or shields.
Plus, if I'm trying to get to a science quickly, (monarchy, or a science to build a wonder), I may convert a bunch of non trade workers to Einsteins to speed things up.

I almost never use taxmen...

	06-01-2000 23:26									#7
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Best time to use Einsteins is when the corruption is high and unhappiness is bad. Einsteins are content, and the sciences from them do not get wasted. Furthermore, perhaps you really don't want the city to grow further due to unhappiness, so food is not important.

Another special case is that you want to get a new government (monarchy, democracy), or you are trying to get philosophy first (a free tech). You may want to convert all citizens to Einsteins for a turn or two (even starving) to get what you want faster.

Otherwise, use Einsteins after you build library at least, or the science is too little to be considered worthwhile.

	07-01-2000 00:26									#8
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I've also noticed that sometimes when you have a city that goes into disorder b/c of an extra pop, you can take a worker off of a square and make him and einstein instead of an elvis and still return the city to order. I have no idea why this works, but I often get that result, and it's a real bonus to actually get some use out of the specialist instead of wasting it on an elvis.

	07-01-2000 00:29									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Heres one example:

City is size 8,i have 3 units in it and a temple,goverment is monarchy and i already have mysticism. Now i have 2 unhappy citizens. If i turn one citizen in entertainer,city will go into disorder next turn. If i turn 2 citizens into entertainers,i'll get one citizen happy. Since theres no use of that one happy citizen i'll turn one entertainer into scientist and all 8 of them will be content.

	07-01-2000 02:35									#10
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I use einsteins AND even tax collectors in cities that are extremely food-rich. in the ToT fantasy game, such city sites are extremely common in the underseas map. A city may have lots of squares that produce three food and more, but little else. I use the production capabilities just to support the city (a little defense, aqueduct...), and pile up the einsteins.

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

	07-01-2000 04:01									#11
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In OCC, can't imagine anyone not using Einsteins and Taxman--Elvis is pointless. As I now understand things, taxman would make sense in 21 + games where science is going to overflow.

Aurelius.

	07-01-2000 18:36									#12
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I've noticed that having a democratic government provides less science (with all the happiness features you need to include_ than being fundamentalist, in which you can convert all "extra" citizens to scientists, and also boost up the science rate.

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	08-01-2000 00:18									#13
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Another use of Einsteins is what Xin mentioned in another thread: At the next to last turn, change all citizens to happy and einsteins to get a boost in your score (if you're into that kind of thing).

By the way, Xin, do we call you Dr. Yu PhD or Xin Yu PhD-PhD I thought about doing one but found that academics would really cramp my work and the income I derive therefrom - not to mention game-playing

	08-01-2000 02:16									#14
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Steve: Did I mention that? If so I'm sure I was not the first one.

Since one may not be concerned about science at the last moment of the game, making people entertainers would be better than making them scientist.

	08-01-2000 21:00									#15
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I'm more interested in the use of taxmen. I almost, well, never, use them. I'm intrigued by MWHC's mention of having at least one in every city. I suppose that would boost income to a very comfortable level, n'est-ce pas?

Also, I had to edit this message and say... "Praise the Lord!!!". I've shed the "Settler" tag.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited January 08, 2000).]

	09-01-2000 15:11									#16
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Quick question about taxman and einstein: Do city improvements help or enhance either character or is it strictly trade based--orange thingy? It occurred to me that maybe with a library and a university, an einstein might give more science than a taxman without a marketplace and Bank...I'll check it out actually.

Hi Kcbob,
Haven't read a post from you in awhile, you go on vacation?

MastAurelius

	09-01-2000 16:33									#17
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Yes, market, bank and stock exchange affect the output of taxmen and entertainers. Scientist output is affected by library, university, research lab, Copernicus and Newton.

	09-01-2000 20:00									#18
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To which i would add to Paul's correct answer of Aurelius' Q...
your civ settings also have an impact.
ie: higher % setting to taxes, in combo with all the other factors pointed out, will cause a tax man to have more impact visa-vi a scientist in the same city on that turn.

Note: DAMN! U'r ALL a bunch of anal-hythenated's!!! (butt... it's nice to know i'm not alone with this afflication)

	09-01-2000 21:15									#19
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Kenthur, my experience is contrary to yours. The tax rate and science rate, in my game, does NOT affect the performance of taxmen and Einsteins.
1 taxman gives 3 additional trade for coins, further adjusted by marketplace, bank, and stock market.
Tax rate should have no effect.

	10-01-2000 05:14									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Could someone help me out with taxmen? Are they good for anything, i.e., should I use them at all?

And hi, Aurelius. Haven't been on vacation. My work location has blocked access to Apolyton so I have to post from home. Sounds like a job for a spy.

------------------
Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited January 09, 2000).]

	10-01-2000 06:06									#21
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Hey Kcbob,

Guess the boss is tougher on you than the wife when it comes to civ

Yes, you should use taxman. It is a great way to micromanage your city/cities. If you want to keep income level while making science high, a few taxmen can accomodate. If you want science on just a bit while makeing money, one einstein will suffice with a 0 science rate and a 100%tax rate....hopefully you won't go into civil disorder everywhere

Also, this discussion should emphasize that some cities are better served by taxmen than einsteins and vice versa as I have always suspected--but never quantified.
............
Oh, seem Mingko is right about the Tax/science % not affecting the individual taxman/einstein contribution.

Another interesting point about tax/science/luxury rate is the diminished returns at extreme rates (not regarding those citizens though ) Am I imagining this diminished return?

Aurelius.

	10-01-2000 19:43									#22
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Well, I spent the weekend fiddling with Einsteins and had trouble making many of them without putting my cities into starvation. Rome is my capital and science city and to see what happens I turned a whole bunch (about ten) citizens into einsteins which meant a huge food shortage. To make up for this I kept shooting food caravans in and this seems to keep everything okay so far. Yes, I have harbours and as much irrigated property as possible. I picked up Pyramids early on so have that benefit.

My question is: I'm playing this game on a small map and there's never a lot of grassland/river squares to irrigate for food. Are you guys playing on medium or large maps so that you can have lots of einsteins (or taxmen, for that matter?) or how are you handling that problem?