10-01-2000 13:47									#1
	Proposed OCC rule change Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I propose the following change to OCC rules:

Encountering an Advanced Tribe doesn't require a reload if:

1. The player must rush-buy a settler (incremental buy permitted)
2. If the discovering unit is a NONE-supported military unit it must be disbanded (towards the cost of the Settler being built)
3. Citizen(s) of the city can't be turned into taxmen or scientists and trade production must be minimized
4. On the turn of discovery, and until the second city is disbanded (if insufficient funds prevent immediate rush-buy), science and tax rates must be reduced so that no net increase in tax or beaker production results
5. No improvements or units that come with the city may be sold, used, or disbanded to add to the production box

	11-01-2000 02:35									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Thats more or less what I voted for when the rule vote took place several months back.However...the problem is later on you may discover size 3 or 4 advanced tribes with improvements.This totally screws up a good OCC game.

	11-01-2000 02:50									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

The way I understood the original rule was that once a hut gave you an advanced tribe you had to reload and never touch that hut again. So a repeating advanced tribe hut should never be an issue.

	11-01-2000 03:44									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I checked Paul's official rules and you may re enter

	11-01-2000 15:13									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Oops, I forgot (5) the first time.

The original debate wasn't this precise, it just said "disband as soon as possible." People debated if you had to use all available resources to rush-buy, etc. The requirement to disband the discovering unit (2) and the proviso that tax/sci be reduced to prevent extra money or research (4) as cost/penalty is new AFAIK. Besides, I didn't get to vote (busy w/Civ3 List) and want to re-open the question.

Hmmm, I don't think I've ever encountered a size 4. But anyway, for larger cities you build the settler, disband it (don't "B," which would add it back to the population) and rush-buy again (you're already half-way). If it isn't on grassland it's easy to starve down one size in the process. Unless you're flat broke it will only take as many turns as the city size.

If it's too big or you're flat broke you have to decide if it's worth suffering possibly reduced tax and science for the turns it would take to completely disband the city. If not, then reload.
[This message has been edited by don Don (edited January 11, 2000).]

	11-01-2000 17:03									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Nah, let's leave things the way they are. Reloading is quick and easy and there can be no question of getting any benefit from another city. The thing I never liked about disbanding is that there were too many questions about side rules, e.g. Can the city be defended to avoid plunder and tech loss?, Can you sell improvements? How fast must you rush buy that Settler? Can you incrementally buy it? Can you send it back to your first city and rehome there? Do you have to keep track of gold and science gained and adjust your tax rates accordingly? What if you get a third city? Can you let the barbs have it so you can bribe cheap NON units? Yeesh! Too many "ifs", "ands" and "buts". Any time you have more than one city, you really aren't playing OCC anymore.

I tend to uncover most of my OCC huts before my first city anyway, so I seldom get Advanced Tribes.

	12-01-2000 10:20									#7
	Tired of ads?

i have to agree with sieve too...... most of my hut hunting days are over once i found my first city .... unless of course i start off with a primo spot......

I have a question about reloading though?

If you reload and are not permitted to go into the hut... what are the odds that another player entering the same hut will get the advanced tribe that you got???? After all sometimes i reload 10- times in a row and keep getting advanced tribes

------------------
They call me Mr. Fierce

	12-01-2000 00:02									#8
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I also agree with Sieve Too on this. Besides, we voted for these rules so we should stick with them. You can't just change the rules every month. In my opinion the rules should only be changed if it is obvious that they don't work and that's not the case here. Ok, occasionally you get several advanced tribes in a row, but that's not too big a problem for me. Having a second city, even if it is only for a short period of time goes against the spirit of the OCC.

	12-01-2000 00:50									#9
	Put an end to popups!

Agreed.

This is a good MP OCC rule should that catch on.

	13-01-2000 17:27									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I don't have MGE, but I suppose if you were to play head-to-head OCC you can't reload when you step on a hut and get an Advanced Tribe.

BTW, the answer to W4E's question: In 2.42 if a hut is "disposed" to being an Advanced Tribe it will tend to be an Advanced Tribe for whoever gets it, player or AI. I've experimented on that point.