13-01-2000 05:35									#31
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I'll be sure to build diplomats--'less he can change the bribe cost too

	13-01-2000 05:40									#32
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I was thinking labels, credits and leaders not rules.

	13-01-2000 05:44									#33
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Aurelius@fog.city - If you make a map of all ocean you can readily see the special pattern. All specials are base-case either fish or whales. Edit the terrain to the various land types and you can see the effects, cheers.
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited January 12, 2000).]

	13-01-2000 05:52									#34
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Aurelius, try this

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/H...html?date=20:46

You're almost there buddy, add another "I"!

Carolus

	13-01-2000 09:34									#35
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I just sent out a scenario version of the OCC game to some of you. I have more email addresses at my office and I will follow up later. Hopefully Paul can get this save onto his website and everyone can download it easily. You will need to "start scenario" instead of a game and choose the Greek civ of Marcos Apolyton to make it work correctly. Have fun! If you want an emailed copy quickly, email me at kcarlson@jurika.com instead of the email listed in my profile. Cheers!

	13-01-2000 10:52									#36
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You can now download a zipped or unzipped version of this scenario from my site.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited May 06, 2000).]

	13-01-2000 18:11									#37
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Paul,
Is the rules.txt file different for 2.42 than from the original CD (mine is from 1996)? The file dates and lengths are the same.

	13-01-2000 18:45									#38
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donD
I just checked the rules.txt on my CD (v1.08 I think) is dated 23 Feb 1996 and is 25693 bytes long. Rules.txt from v2.42 is dated 5 Aug 1996 and is 25824 bytes long.
I hope this helps.

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	13-01-2000 19:59									#39
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Aurelius - what I have heard in this forum about terraforming is that it only works if you start with grassland. I have tried this with grassland and it works for me about 2/3 of the time. I have never tried it with other terrain so I don't know what would happen.

I received the scenario via email this morning and will try it tonight when I get home.

	13-01-2000 20:28									#40
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Aurelius, Crow: I believe that the "hidden sweet spot" can only occur on grassland with shield.

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	13-01-2000 21:06									#41
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D'oh! SG, I think you are right. The game I played the other night had a plain grassland square in the spot...

BTW, can you terraform to anything you like? I've only changed to hills (since I usually need the extra production).

	13-01-2000 21:25									#42
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I have had questions on whether a non shielded grassland can occur in the special sweet spot but have just assumed that I was seeing things.

crow - the best way to check for specials is to convert grassland to forest. It takes much less time and a little old settler can do it right away. If you get silk - you get the trade, and if you get a pheasant you can keep it for a bit for food or irrigate it and it becomes plains and a buffalo, which also gets trade.

I posted a while back the order of specials from the base fish and whales, but I did it off of the top of my head and I can't remember right now, other than silk -> wheat and pheasant -> buffalo.

Hope everyone has fun with the game! There is a twist you will notice when you first open it up.
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited January 13, 2000).]

	13-01-2000 21:33									#43
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Sten - You can convert it twice?!?! Oh, I thought I had read something here that you could only do it once. But if you can do it twice, then I will try that. So you are saying that you can also change buffalo to silk and then to coal? Boy, the things I don't know. I will try that too.

	13-01-2000 21:46									#44
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NoYesNoYes...
You can change buffalo to pheasant and back to buffalo, over and over, but you can never change buffalo to silk. Wheat you can change back and forth to silk but you will never get buffalo or pheasant. I can't recall what the hill result of either one is, but it will always be the same.

	14-01-2000 10:27									#45
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Okay, now it is clear. I probaly won't do a whole lot of changing but it's good to know I can if I need to.

	13-01-2000 23:50									#46
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Manipulation of Special Terrain Squares

You can terraform these special terrain squares into different special terrains as follows:

Buffalo: Mine to Pheasant
Coal: Transform to Buffalo
Fruit: Transform to Wheat
Furs: Transform to Oil(in Desert)
Pheasant: Irrigate to Buffalo
Musk Ox: Transform to Oasis
Gems: Mine to Pheasant, Transform to Buffalo
Gold: Transform to Coal
Iron: Transform to Wine--very useful!
Ivory: Transform to Musk Ox
Oasis: Transform to Buffalo
Oil(in Desert): Transform to Wheat
Oil(in Glacier): Transform to Furs
Peat: Mine to Pheasant, Transform to Buffalo
Silk: Irrigate to Wheat
Spice: Tranform to Wheat
Wheat: Mine to Silk--very useful!
Wine: Transform to Wheat

Note that you can also terraform a special into a non-special terrain, but the "potential" of the square remains the same, which means you can then terraform it again and create a special. I've used the special modification trick in order to manipulate the specials in my OCC game with great success. I especially like the Iron Transformed to Wine trick!

	14-01-2000 00:12									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 01-13-2000 10:28 AM Aurelius, Crow: I believe that the "hidden sweet spot" can only occur on grassland with shield.

The hidden special terrain must be grassland, but it does not have to have a shield to hide a special. Toggle on the cheat mode and change the terrain at several special squares. You will be able to "see" the specials for all terrains except grassland (or grassland with shield).

	14-01-2000 00:54									#48
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Yes its true.Found it out while mining potential ai city sites to forest.Thought I was seein things.Specials can appear in non sheilded grasslands
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited January 13, 2000).]

	14-01-2000 00:55									#49
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Hi folks,
I'm slowly learning that there is no such thing as a random map. First Huts patterns and now special terrain patterns.... I guess my OCC settlers will have a little more direction in the future.

Also, I'm glad there are some more experienced players involved in this process. But it's occurred to me that we might be playing apples and oranges during the first competition.

Some of my early posts don't quite mesh with my later posts Tell me if the following things contradict anyones understanding of the competition rules:

0) I'm still not certain if the map is random or edited (I have no experience in editing maps or making scenarios.)

1) We all have the same map.

2) We all have the same starting position (Year 4000 BC)

3) Smash's suggestion that we use a scenario so all can play and at different levels.

4) We may start our city anywhere at any time. (I'm sorry about some prior posts that leave this point confused. Never meant to say that we'd have to start our city at tile one or in the same location.)

5) For OCC rules and strategy and the .scn for the competition, go to Paul's OCC link.

ahhhh feel free to clarify things to ME if I don't understand the rules


Here is Sten Sture's starting graphic:
http://www.farmhand.com/Fortnight_OCC_One.html

I'm just posting this graphic as a I always get excited when I see the dark space. Hopefully we'll have a lot of wandering settlers.

Aurelius--To work now, play later.

	14-01-2000 01:05									#50
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The map is basically random with a couple of minor modifications to change a few land bridges and enhance the initial starting postion.

	14-01-2000 01:08									#51
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Aurelius - that's how I understand the rules. Although as we go along it might be interesting for the maker of the map to wander a bit & settle a city, then save and send it out.

	14-01-2000 01:10									#52
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Dam double.This site doesn't work to well in the day for me
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited January 13, 2000).]

	14-01-2000 01:11									#53
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well I can't do a dam thing with it. mac sucks.Actually my ignorance sucks

	14-01-2000 02:00									#54
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Eureka!I am so stupid.There is a read me with the MAC version that kinda sorta explains how to convert pc saves.ou don't really have to do much.

	14-01-2000 02:50									#55
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I thought I was going to have to go buy a Mac and make up a new one for you!

	14-01-2000 02:56									#56
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OK, so I know where to find the rules. I know where to get the scenario. But I was wondering if there was a consensus as to preferred difficulty level for this contest? I'd like to see how I fare against experienced OCC players and wish to play at the same difficulty level. Additionally, are most of you using v 2.42 or MPG? Also, is there a particular start date for this contest, or shall we start at anytime? I think that's enough questions, don't you? :-)

	14-01-2000 03:03									#57
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inca - the 'real' OCC rules specify deity but for this competition I don't think it really matters as long as you say what level you're playing on. I would bet that most people are playing on deity though. I am planning on starting as soon as I get home; AFAIC you can start as soon as the game has been posted. I am using MGE, it seems that we are close to evenly split between it and 2.42. Keep in mind that Paul has made all his records on 2.42 and those of us that play MGE have noticed that the AI is uncooperative compared to 2.42, ie it is more difficult to get tribute or to even to get them to share maps!

Hope this helps, I'll report back with my results tomorrow.

	14-01-2000 03:35									#58
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Feel free to try out bizarre strategies on this thing. I have been thinking of a few and I am planning to use one. Since I revealed the map before I modified it, I should use the experience to do something different than make a bee line for every hut (like I remember.) I really wish I could have included events from Paul's record game so we would get notices like "400ad - Paul discovers Automobile" Ohmygod, I have a size 8 city and I'm researching Masonry! Hahaha, I think it would have been funny.

	14-01-2000 09:31									#59
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Jeez, I tried a OCC on diety, I lost to suix they beat me to AC. It is much harder then king that i can tell you...



I am still plain flabergasted by pauls record. Good work.

------------------
Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	14-01-2000 15:57									#60
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I started playing last night and I'm not doing too well.

Hope to finish this weekend, one way or the other...

Carolus