10-01-2000 14:21									#1
	Fortnight OCC Competition Proposition Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

To those OCC folks interested,

There has been some discussion about an OCC competition occurring once every two weeks with a random position. To get the gist of the discussion, check the later posts in the thread:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/H...html?date=02:48

Paul has offered to host the position at his OCC site for easy download and accessibility to the OCC rules and strategy. After the competition is over, a new position will be posted and logs of the finished competition can be posted and discussed in an Apolyton Civ II Strategy thread--say "Fortnight I OCC results." And then the winner honored

Right now, I'm proposing that those interested in the biweekly competition discuss various concerns about rules of engagement and the submission of positions.

don Don has suggested that random positions might lead to impossible situations, and thus, a loss of interest in keeping a good log.

Paul has mentioned that whoever submits the competitive position should have v2.42 as MGE saves are not backwards compatible.

My interest in the competition is the element of unpredictability in the game. I like the idea that AI might actually win if human competitors look too hard for a great location to start their one city.

For all of us OCC advocates, we can discuss the competition from a context and share logs and strategy. Even errant strategies would be interesting/fun.

Whatever, any input would be appreciated and a final concensus should rule and all welcome.

Thanks Aurelius.

	11-01-2000 02:24									#2
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Sounds like something to keep us occupied between MP games and waitin for Civ3.

You will have to comfortable within the confines of the honor system.No prob here.

One prob I do have is my comp is a MAC.I don't know how to convert PC saves hence I cannot play the saves available at Paul's site(cept mine of course)which I can't dowmload from there either.

random maps would probably mean players would settle in different locations.Kinda hard to compare logs then but still appealing to me.How early can you land this map? not this spot.

	11-01-2000 04:24									#3
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Yes, each game would have a divergent path. But,I've often wondered if the AI's in a given game have a preset disposition. If so, the common map and the disposition might make for contextual logs. In the Four Whales comparison game, I played the game three times and found the civs to have a similar dispositions in each game. But the hut luck and changed strategies did cause some significant diffenences in the overall game complexion.

Concerning honor, that's all we got. So don't be bring you're 'atrocious' ethics to the competition or the accolades "won't be worth the paper it's printed on!"

I'm Just being silly, as things stand, I thought it would be just a light hearted competition-- and an interesting biweekly thread.

Oh, and I didn't consider the Mac problem. Is there a way to convert? How does multiplayer deal with mac and PC savs?

Aurelius.

	11-01-2000 04:42									#4
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hmm not sure.I can resume games against PC players but I'm not sure if they sent me their save whether I could load it or not.

When I sent a game to Paul he could load and play it but I couldn't with games from him.


Must be nice to actually possess some computer knowledge

	11-01-2000 05:50									#5
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Smash - I think I sent .sav files to a couple of Mac users and they worked alright, didn't I send you the 4 whales?

Anyhow, I do have most of your email addresses on my system so I could set up the first map and email out the files if that helps...

	11-01-2000 07:38									#6
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Smash-

I also have a mac, and your problem has not bothered me. Recently I have not been able to download anything, but i git the 4 whale game and it worked fine. If you get a file that is all unstuffed and everything just open it thruogh civII "load game".



Oh yeah not to insult your intellegence but you refered to them as maps, they are saved games rather then maps. just in case



Aurelius-

Awsome idea, I can't wait. But I have never written a log before, how do i do that? pen and paper? ot is there an easy way?

------------------
Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	11-01-2000 07:45									#7
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What difficultie level do you normally play on?

------------------
Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	11-01-2000 07:46									#8
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Hi Sten Sture,

Sounds good, why don't you get the ball rolling and submit a [the] position. Then Paul can put it on his site. We'll have two weeks to complete the game.

Are you sure you wouldn't rather submit a game without the Vikings Then you can also compete in the first round.

And try and keep a log-- as yet, I have never completed one! I just get too excited after monarchy is discovered.

Oh, and if folks finish before two weeks and want to post their log in a "Fortnight 1 OCC Competition" thread, the rest of us can ignore the thread until we are finished.

Another nifty way to share the position is to submit interesting graphics for uploading. I can now do this. In fact, if Sten Sture sends me the 4000BC date, I'll post the starting graphic at this thread.

So be it!

Aurelius.

	11-01-2000 07:48									#9
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Aurelius-Look at this times 45, 46, we do post at practacly the same time.

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Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	11-01-2000 07:59									#10
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Genghis Al,

It would be diety with raging hordes on a small map (small map, right Sten? Just got severely humbled on a large map ) Genghis, you should be able to handle those barbarians being one of their leaders....

Oh and I think Smash was referring to the map in the context of comparison games. In this competition, one can chose any site rather than the 'special terrain' rich site of the comparison game. Thus, we'd be trying to get to AC earliest relative to an entire map and not a single tile.

See you in AC Genghis,
Aurelius.

	11-01-2000 08:02									#11
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Hmmm. i have never played a diety OCC yet... just king for my 1st 2. I better play a few of those...

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Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	11-01-2000 08:44									#12
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Genghis Al,

You asked about how to do a log. In the following thread, Paul makes a very detailed log that associates a date with the following events: all hut booty, city improvements, change of government, completion of wonders, and of course, all science advances and ship-launch/AC-arrival. It's an ideal log. If this is too much, just do a science log and mention if it is traded or hut or developed science.

I think some of us will include crypt dates too

Oh yeah, if you haven't played the Comparison game, you may not want to look at the log so as to have a sporting chance to beat Paul's 1775 AC date...

Paul's Aurelius OCC game log:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/H...html?date=16:18


Aurelius
[This message has been edited by Aurelius (edited January 10, 2000).]

	11-01-2000 15:28									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hi guys,

I'm not up to your competetive standards, but I do have a suitable map which I have been using to try to learn how to play this silly game - it has three potentially reasonable OCC sites (1 of them really rather good) - would you like it??

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	12-01-2000 00:08									#14
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OK Mac guys, it's time to buy a PC and convert to the Dark Side. You must submit to Bill Gates like the rest of the world has done (desktop publishers excluded, of course). I do know of a nice deal to get a free PC, and I don't work for either company, so I'm definitely not spamming this board.

If you have $1000 in cash/securites that you can tie up for a year, then you can open an E*Trade account and get a free 400 MHz PC (minus $75 shipping) with some nice features (but you have to buy a monitor). Check out www.myfavoritepc.com for more details.

Perhaps this will help you play more civ....

	12-01-2000 00:46									#15
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PC?....shudder.......NEVER!


shoulda got one in the first place

	12-01-2000 01:00									#16
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SG - I saved a decent map last eve, but I forgot to email it to work (got side tracked watching an FA Cup match. ) so I was going to do that tonight; if you don't want a new map, we could use yours. Either way. I could dress one up for King play as well if some of you want a warm-up.

	12-01-2000 01:26									#17
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I'm not too familiar with .sav's at different levels (king or diety,) but if the game can be played at different levels and with the same map, that would be more inclusive/good. The logs or posts can just include the level and the city start date. It occurs to me that maybe this is undermining OCC rules--but we aren't setting records.

SG, right now, the competition is very informal. Maybe at some point we can organize a highly competitive format. For now, just play and have fun. I'm sure I'll have late 1900 scores if I don't get blown up or get real lucky.

Why don't SS and SG both submit their positions to Paul and send me a copy so I can make an image to entice other players into the gathering

Aurelius
(farmhand@best.com)

	12-01-2000 01:58									#18
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Boy, all you great civers know how to make a guy feel unwanted

I do have on my list to start playing OCC - after I learn a few things first and wrap up a few projects in the next few weeks. I am following along closely and would be very interested in the various results. Good luck friends.

	12-01-2000 02:29									#19
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I think I can do the same map at different levels...hmmmm

And Clark you have to play as a "control" group in the game. Without reading any of the tips, try to win the game; Winning at all on the first try is a record in my book.

	12-01-2000 03:18									#20
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If you start with a map, you get to pick your tribe,difficulty etc. You also get the choice to randomize/not the starting positions. In addition, the special resources are normally randomly distributed. If one creates a map, they can specify a non-random seed so it will be the same for all.
For a better comparison, you can save before the first movement, then all the random stuff is set.

	12-01-2000 05:14									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

To the leader of the golden horde,

When I write a log I have Word minimised and just switch between civ and the open Word document. Not sure that it's simpler, but that's what I have to do. My writing stinks...

See you guys on Alpha Centauri!

Carolus

	12-01-2000 05:30									#22
	Support Apolyton

Save it as a scenario and it will be the same for all.This makes it playable at any level also.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited January 11, 2000).]

	12-01-2000 20:37									#23
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Carolus - I use an excel sheet to keep track of my progress. I have a column for gold, diplomacy, techs, etc, all I have to do is fill in dates with the important information.
Aurelius - are we about ready to start teh competition?

	12-01-2000 21:21									#24
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My apologies for the delay... I forgot that with all of the changes I made to my rules.txt on version 2.42, that I couldn't use the scenario save until I had converted my rules.txt back to the original version. Of course I hadn't been smart enough to save a back up copy of the rules.txt so I had to find my original Civ CD, which was the time equivalent of sending an archer around the artic circle. Anyway I finally found it this morning before leaving for work, but I will have to wait to get home in 8 hours or so to reinstall the original files and then send the thing out.

Short version of the story: If anyone has a 2.42 scenario save map ready to go, be my guest to go send it out.

	13-01-2000 01:10									#25
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Sten, you should realise that there were some changes to rules.txt in the various patches, so unless your CD version is 2.42 you need the rules.txt from the 2.42 patch.

	13-01-2000 01:43									#26
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I think my original CD is 2.42, but I'll double and triple check. Thanks for the alert. Then again I could make a few "subtle" changes... hmmmm

	13-01-2000 03:07									#27
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Crow,

Things are moving along much faster than I ever imagined. Also, in all my ignorance, I wouldn't dare nudge things along. Though I'm curious about the changes Sten winked at ...

A couple days ago, I tried to purchase a basket full of goodies at microprose. I had a hard time figuring out which game is v2.42. And then I couldn't get the game to add to my basket. This online buying is not real intuitive or easy with all the forms stuffed in my face. Can anyone tell me what I need for multiplayer and v2.42. I've assumed multiplayer edition for multiplayer, but a bit of direction would be helpful to the hapless.

And then there was ToT and ... too many choices for me. It's like choosing the right can of beans from the can foods isle

Aurelius--daggonit 1-800 isn't home my time either

	13-01-2000 03:17									#28
	Put an end to popups!

Aurelius - Sorry, didn't mean to push you . I am just chomping at the bit to be able to compare my games more directly with others. In the meantime I can try to improve my play. Last night I had a game with three specials and I terraformed where the fourth should've been but didn't get anything. I still managed to get to AC by 1945 though. The three specials were fish, coal and wheat. This really makes me wonder about my other games as the best I've done so far is 1930, which is bad enough but looks really crappy compared to the 1945 with only 3 specials. Maybe I just really improved my game last night ...

	13-01-2000 04:52									#29
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Hey crow,
I've seen posts referring to the expected terraformed special before. What are the indications? Usually when I terraform and a special occurs, I'm pleasantly surprised. I liked your spread sheet idea and Carolus' opened Word.

Oh Carolus Rex, is Charles the XI the leader of your horde And where is that old thread you mentioned concerning post names?

AU

	13-01-2000 05:27									#30
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Subtle changes?..Like barbs with an attack value of 12?hehehe