20-01-2000 11:03									#1
	Perm Alliance - Can Still Destroy Land? Tired of ads?

I was just playing a SP game where I saw something I hadn't noticed before. I'd improved my tech tree up to refigeration so had farmland around my big cities. I also had a perm. alliance with America (I was Japan). After a while, the Americans came in with settlers and would build cities near my main centers of operations, but they'd only have like 2-3 squares to use. Eventually they brought in troops and would destroy my farmland and leave it as plain irrigation so I'd have to go back and rebuild the farmland. A number of times they also built fortresses on my land. It seems very strange that during a perm alliance the other member could destroy your land improvements and not provoke a war. During the entire time they were doing this I'd check the city screen and I still had control of the land, even while they were in the act of destroying it.

Has anyone else seen this? Could be another way to weaken an enemy before you attack them. Sign a perm alliance, go into their cities and destroy the irrigation so they starve to death/can't produce anything, then break the treaty? Kind of cheap but a way to go if this is reproducable and wasn't just a fluke in my game.

	20-01-2000 12:32									#2
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I have never seen this.Nice allies eh?

What I have seen is rival civ's settlers and engineers changing the land by irrigating forests to plains... etc

I guess when cities overlap it is considered their territory on their turn and your territory on your turn

	21-01-2000 10:29									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

I have found it helpful to forest open plains or grasslands squares that are not inside my city radii(?) to prevent the AI from building a city there. I have yet to see the AI modify the terrain that would be its city center.

	21-01-2000 10:59									#4
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I have not seen this but, in a way, it makes sense to the AI. A perm ally is like becoming a friend - one that can be invited to come over anytime. The AI sees this as a relationship that you won't destroy, so it takes advantage of your generosity and invites itself over to your territory. Now, on the other hand, what if you invite yourself to their territory? Does it accept you or gets mad? Methinks for play balance that it is one-sided since all the AI is doing in your territory is making you share. If you go to theirs, you have far more capabilities to really hurt them.

	21-01-2000 00:00									#5
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Get yourself some police stations, or WS, and park a bunch of units in some of those strategically placed empty fortresses that they always have. Mess up his stuff too. Then ask your good ally for a gift - you'll probably get it. Pretty soon he'll either back-off, hovering around your units, or cancel the alliance and go to war. Then yours dips can dispose of the offending city and maybe pickup a couple of good ones to boot.

This is one of the reasons I avoid allying with civs that are close to me.

	21-01-2000 02:49									#6
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I have always assumed the icon for settler, dragoon, musketeer and so on, is really just representative of a whole batallion of such settlers, musketeers, etc. So that is not just one guy, but a whole company of troops sent by the AI civ to explore, develop, make war, pillage, etc. (Since the settler(s) do form a city of 10,000 population, this idea does kind of make sense.)
When I see musketeers, or settlers, doing stuff I dont agree with, like getting close to my cities, or when they have strayed inside my city perimeters, I often "send an emissary" to the offending civ, and ask for tribute. They often do give a gift and then state they will remove their offending troops at once. If they don't give tribute, at least they ask to be forgiven for violating my territory and remove their troop. Of course during a cease fire, there is no treaty so they can just go where they please, without having to vacate your land....there's a cease fire in effect, you see.