02-05-2001 04:11									#1
	Thankyou Activision for CTP2 (a spin on words) Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, in a way I do need to thank Activision for CTP2. Why? Well let me tell you quite honestly that CTP2 is a crappy adaptation of CivII. The AI stinks, there's bugs/problems/inbalances throughout the entire game (I don't think any one model in the game is flawless), and multiplayer has synch problems on my PC. So why am I thanking Activision for that?

Since paying $90 for CTP2 in the first week on the shelves in Melbourne, I have come to the realisation that most PC-game companies are doing exactly the same thing as Activision. They release half an untested, buggy, problematic, unplayable game just before Christmas and charge an excessive $80-$110 for it!!!! Since getting CTP2 I have spent hardly any time on my PC playing games and all that spare time has been devoted to my girlfriend. Our relationship is now better than ever. My PC however is very jealous and the divorce case should be resolved in the next few weeks.

So thankyou Activision for giving me the time to spend with my other half.

EDIT: I also want to point out that once the current changes to the diplomacy in Med Mod II are complete, I'll release a Diplomod V3.5 with all the new enhancements. When that is done I'm completely pulling out of the CTP2 mod-writing community. I'm sorry, but I can't spend my time fixing a game that should have been fixed by Activision. I have other higher priorities now.

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."
[This message has been edited by Dale (edited May 01, 2001).]

	02-05-2001 05:15									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well Dale, can't say I blame ya, mate.
You did great with the mods, and the CTP2 community (what's left of us) thanks you for it.
Of course, there's only so much you can do with this game. You did the best that you could with what they gave you to work with.
Good luck in your other endeavors.

- Skeeve

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My reach exceeds my grasp!

	02-05-2001 11:40									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yeah, thanks for diplomod bro. You did the best you could to help fix a half arsed product

	03-05-2001 09:33									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Firstly thanks Dale for Diplomod, and loads of other SLIC help you've given me in the last coupla months.

And I'm sorry to see you leave, cos the CTP2 community could have an AGM in a mini , but I understand that CTP2 doesn't have the ability to supercede all else like Civ2 at the start.

Secondly, another thanks to Activision, for showing Firaxis how not to make a Civ title (like Sid needed telling...)

	03-05-2001 01:10									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well I personally am very picky about games, and never buy any games till they drop down to at least 30 Dollars. You pay outrageously way to much for games in Australia. The most expensive games are 40 dollars here. (Some very few BUT THE CREAM OF THE CROP GAMES like Baldurs Gate 2 start out at 50 or 45.) But I loved the Civ series and I personally sorta liked CTP so I went out and bought the crappy CTP2. Well most games Ive played have been rather good and quite fun and I do disagree with the statements you made about all game companies. Maybe you should be more picky before you pick up a game. Now all games will have there bugs, its when a company chooses not to fix it where it becomes a problem. Here is a list of some awsome games: Baldur's Gate 1&2, Diablo II, StarCraft:Broodwars, HalfLife, Counter-Strike, Homeworld &Homeworld Cataclysm, Black And White, Sacrifice, Giants: Citizens Kabutos, The Sims, Deus Ex.

	03-05-2001 02:33									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Did anyone else notice that CTP2 got hardly any media coverage? I mean, other than in Apolyton...I never once noticed it previewed nor advertised in any gaming magazines or on television. Maybe that's the real reason it bombed. I do not for one moment think we should be glad that it bombed; for surely if it were to have become a popular title, Activision would have released at least one more patch to fix at least some of the more inscrutable bugs.

It's been a very sad affair indeed, with no winners.

	03-05-2001 02:57									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I bought CTP2 a few days ago. It's still £30 over here though I managed to pick it up for £20. I have to say it's the worst £20 I ever spent. The game looks cheap and amateur and is far worse than it's predecessor. Activision are useless on their help page too. I mailed them telling them that the Alexander T Great scenario would not allow me to build any of the new units. They mailed back saying I should get tips on how to play the game.

	03-05-2001 04:53									#8
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Just to clarify something, after receiving a couple of panicky emails. haha. I'm just taking a breather from gaming. I can guarentee I'll be back into gaming soon enough. It's just right now I'm in an "Off-gaming" phase. That's why I'm pulling out, because I don't have the time right now due to having other things of higher priorities. I do however still feel stiffed by Activision for not bringing out another patch to address the major bugs. But hey, we can't have it all our way eh?

BTW, I can't wait for the final Med Pack II to be released. After working on some of the scripts for it, I can tell you it's going to be awesome! Between the whole Med Pack II team we have come up with a pack which totally changes the game, it's like it's a brand new game. But the beauty is that it's written by civ-fanatics, and has a lot of what we dreamed of. I've had a lot of fun working with these guys, and must say that the talent in the team is HUGE! Well done to all of them. It makes a dodgy game worth playing.

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	03-05-2001 05:39									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Well as for me CTP2 is pretty much dead. I tried Med Mod II beta and personally I didnt see much of a difference but it is still pretty good. However Rather then relying on a mod to save CTP2 I will stick to something that works and go back to playing SMAC. Just out of curiosity should I buy, Civ2 TOT? I have read mixed reviews about Test Of Time. Is it worth getting?

	03-05-2001 15:12									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

CTP II got a fair amount of media attention in the UK at the time of its release. In fact the reviews were pretty positive since none of the reviewers really did a number on the game to test its strategic side. The talk here was also positive in the early weeks. Sadly the growing realisation that the game had problems and needed some additional development followed by the abandonment by Activision soured it totally.

	13-05-2001 19:19									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

I would buy ToT, I bought 5 copies at Walmart for $7.98 each
and gave it to 5 friends already having an original $40 copy.
And made 5 new turn based converts, addicts, what ever, Im sure
I did them a dis service now that I think about it, 3 of the five
wont play anything else now, Kohan, Baldurs Gate, any thing. The
Midguard Scenario is good too, as well as the Si Fi, I wonder what
came first ToT or Smac.

	14-05-2001 07:34									#12
	Support Apolyton

I thought y'all might be exaggerating a *little* with the bugs and all throughtout the posts that I've read, that is until I come across one of the most obvious and annoying bugs ever.

In a multiplayer game with me and my brother and 5 AI opponents I think, me and my bro were at peace at the time and I was trying to wipe out the turks. I had way too many cities (51 for corporate republic), and ahead in science, I was 'selling' the weak cities I took over to my brother (unhappiness was just too much, and they were ~8-12 size so I couldnt quickly disband them). Anyway, once you get so many cities the list in the diplomacy screen fills the screen (at 1024 res) and you cannot scroll or anything, so you cannot give away your latest cities.

This is a joke! If anyone had actually playtested this game at all it would have been caught. And it truely does freak up the game, in addition to all the crashes that occur. Sometimes we get to a point where every time we try to end a turn it crashes on one of the comps, so we have to exit on one end and let the AI control for one turn. If Craptivision didnt want to properly play-test the game, why didnt they give test versions to the players, such as at Apolyton?

Further to that, as far as I understand they have stopped supporting the game, full stop, yet it is still buggy as hell. If thats the case, what the hell would they care if the game source was released in full to a couple of coders that could hunt down the more obvious bugs and fix em in a New Patch so that the game is playable, without actually changing the game itself (as mods do). Hey i play q3 and its poor and buggy at times but at least iD are still supporting it.

Hey, I've got an idea for firaxis and civ3....Bring in your receipt from CTP2 and get a discount! We all got ripped and it would be good for the company image! (just kidding of course)

	17-05-2001 11:05									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The funny thing about this is, I remember Dale being an active defender of CTP2, even after the message that said they weren't gonna' support the game any longer. And to witness such a drastic flip-flop on his position... Rather amusing!

	17-05-2001 18:26									#14
	Suffering from ads?

Well, at least he's in 'good' company:
Bill Clinton, Jesse Jackson, Joseph Liberman, Al Gore.
Basically the Kings of Flip-flop.

(Note that I needed to put the word 'good' in quotes).

- Skeeve

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My reach exceeds my grasp!

	17-05-2001 22:32									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

Whoah there Skeeve, don't go starting political fracas now.

	18-05-2001 04:43									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just a comment. I haven't flip-flopped. Right from the beginning I've been saying negative/non-positive comments about CTP2. For example:

Why did I write the diplomacy mod? From the diplomod history notes....

quote: Diplomod was born as an idea when I grew so frustrated with the inability of the AI in CTP2 to use diplomacy.

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From the thread "Why is the AI so bad???" Jan 3.... (One of my first posts in the CTP2 forums just after I got the game a week before)

quote: I agree. The Artificial Stupid on harder levels starts with heaps more, but it doesn't take long to rein them in.

A thread about the AI not performing very well.
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From the thread "You'll never believe this! The AI beat me!" Jan 10....

quote: Yeah I know, but it's the only time I've heard in these forums of an actual civilisation (not the barbs) actually beating an experienced civ-er playing fair 'n square.

A thread about the uselessness of the AI to conquor the Human.
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From the thread "a STATEMENT OF ACTIVISION TO THE CIV COMMUNITY" Jan 21....

quote: All I can say is that I spent the weekend fighting CTP2 to create a mod that will activate AI diplomacy. But after reading this statement I'm of a mind to completely trash the program and stop.

I haven't been actively defending CTP2, but trying to give it a chance by modding stuff to make the game worth the money I shelled out for it.

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	18-05-2001 04:49									#17
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

dont worry dale. not everyone spent their time productively