21-05-2001 01:42									#1
	My Letter To Activision (Being Nice...) Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Dear Sir or Madam, The online Civ community received with disappointment the news that Activision planned to release no further patches for CTP2, as the general feeling was that the game had the potential to become the best TBS game ever. Three months later, and the CTP2 community has dwindled to just a few hundred people who are still playing or modding. I will not comment on how *good* or not the game is, suffice to say I am still here, but it has been shown that CTP2 does not have the long-term playability of Civ2 (for example). Largely this is due to the lack of Play-By-EMail, hotseat, and a stable Multiplayer system, but the reason the Civ2 comunity is so large, is because of the huge range of mods and scenarios. I am convinced that CTP2 is as, and indeed more moddable than Civ2, and many people, especially at the Apolyton Civilization Site have worked extremely hard to get the best out of CTP2. I am sure you are aware that many people still feel extremely angry about the bugs in CTP2, but I'm not writing to remind you of this. I am writing because I think that the Activision CTP2 team can at least give the CTP2 community the tools to make CTP2 the best it can be. The spritetool was gratefully received, and I think I have nearly 100 fan-created units on my computer, for use in various CTP1 and 2 scenarios. Now that Activision has stopped work on the CTP series, the community would be incredibly grateful if you could allow us to use the program which was used to edit and/or compress the *.til files for terrain and tile improvements. This one program, emailed to me, or to Markos Giannopoulos at markg@apolyton.net would open up many more opportunities to add to the game, and adapt the game engine to unlimited numbers of scenarios. On behalf of the entire CTP2 community at Apolyton Civilization Site (http://apolyton.net), Yours faithfully, Ben Weaver. email:weaver1@tinyworld.co.uk

Last edited by Immortal Wombat on 29-05-2001 at 21:21

	21-05-2001 07:07									#2
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I guess this is worth a shot, odds of success are probably small (it would be a management decision and Activision management is paranoid as hell, the A-team can assure you that) but it sure beats doing nothing. A few comments.

On the letter itself: please mind the spelling of the word Civilization and the typos of playability (l. 7), hard (l. 11) and 'opportunities to' (r. 22). Use Markos' full name and email address, it may be known to Mr Ogre & Co but they don't work for Activision anymore. I frankly don't know if anyone who even knows Apolyton still works there. Maybe change 'a few dozen people' to 'a few hundred people', there are many lurkers: a lot of files in the download database still have about 1000 or more downloads. Other than that, it looks fine to me.

I don't think a petition will be necessary, you already said it yourself: 'the CTP2 community has dwingled to just a few dozen people', a petition usually serves to show that a lot of people support something and there simply aren't a lot of people around anymore. Activision isn't gonna do this because raging hords of fans are demanding it, they'll have to do it for half a dozen modmakers and maybe a few hundred players.

Just a thought, but maybe it would be better if someone from the A-team or Markos himself would send this letter instead of you? They already know us (esp. Harlan, he might be the best candidate), so that *might* be an advantage. I don't know if Parker Davis still works there but he was kind of our contact person, so that would be a good person to send the letter to in that case. As I said, just a thought, but worth considering at least.

	21-05-2001 20:38									#3
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I'd like to request that the raw .tif files for the sprites be released. Much like they did with the cow sprite. If not for CTP2 then at least for CTP1. I was thinking of writing them about this myself but I am notoriously lazy.

I am told that snail mail carries far more weight than email but if you do have a specific contact person in the company then I'd think email would be just as effective.

Maybe we can get Harlan to hand carry the letter to Activision? With an armed escort??

	21-05-2001 22:29									#5
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Nice. We all should sign it.
Markos' full name is Markos Giannopoulos. Easy, I type it so often.

------------------
Solver the "Running Beer" - http://www.aok.20m.com

	21-05-2001 22:49									#6
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I would like also to request the *.til file editor. And a *.rim file to *.tga converter that could save a lot of screen capuring work.

I am most interesting in opening the source code a hack patch could increase Activision's sales of CTP2. I know that is very much, but I think that would the only way to turn this game into the best civ game ever. Of course we don't need ask this at once, but this would be the last hope for the game and of course Activion.

I think there are more people than here in the forums presented playing or modding this game. One of my last image pack got 88 downloads in the last month, OK it could be more but that show that there are enough people who try to modify the game. And you can guess that there are actually more people than that who are playing this game. Therefore if Activion do release one of my requests it could help more than thousand people and of course Activion itself.

-Martin

	23-05-2001 18:53									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Good idea, but um... whats the A-team ? Apolyton team ? I'll mail it to Harlan then.

What? you heretic! Don't you read the credits?! It's a group of Apolytoners (I don't think the debate on whether the A stood for Apolyton or Alpha was ever settled) that was invited by Activision's programmers to help out to prevent that CtP2 would be the disaster CtP1 was and so we could start working on mods even before the game was released. As I said, an idea of the programmers: management didn't really like it so things didn't exactly work out as planned, but we still gave them some useful tips, Harlan got to make the Alexander scenario and we could all start working on mods very early.

Solver: Sure, but can you pronounce it correctly too?

	23-05-2001 19:40									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus What? you heretic! Don't you read the credits?!

I read the credits in the manual, which upon futher inspection, appear to be incomplete...

quote: It's a group of Apolytoners (I don't think the debate on whether the A stood for Apolyton or Alpha was ever settled) that was invited by Activision's programmers to help out to prevent that CtP2 would be the disaster CtP1 was

ha ha ha That one worked then...
Damn management.

So thanks to the utterly unsung work of: Skorpion69, Morgoth, Nordicus, Celestial Dawn, Locutus, Mrs. Morgoth, Paul, WesW, Thomas Pelz (TP?), and Mark Cummings (who?)

Activision sure hid that away

	23-05-2001 20:19									#9
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Yep, the deadline for the manual apparently closed before the decision to include us in the credits was made.

quote: ha ha ha That one worked then...

Yep, everytime I read another one of those posts of people bashing CtP2 or Activision this is exactly what comes to my mind too But if you look past the AI and multiplayer disasters it's not even all that bad a game... (but let's not go off topic here)

Very good IW, you got them all except one! You didn't win the Ferrari but instead you get the no-expenses paid trip to the Bahamas Anyone who recognized Mark Cummings is a real vet, he's dutcheese.

	23-05-2001 21:18									#10
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dp

	23-05-2001 21:19									#11
	Got spare money?

Ah of course, I was sure I knew the name. I have his cool CTP scenario pack.
Yeah, but to stay On-topic, maybe the remaining A-team could sign the bottom ?

When's my no-expenses paid trip then ?

	23-05-2001 21:51									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

Well, I for one wouldn't mind doing that but I can't speak for the other guys of course. Seems like they haven't read this thread yet, I kind of expected more replies...

You can leave tonight if you want

	26-05-2001 01:15									#13
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couple suggestions.

1) type it out, and mail it. It's more formal that way.

2) u might want to spell out PBEM, MP, and all that -- you might never know who will be reading it



hmm, let's see if I can think of anything else ...

oh, ask them why the emeperor dude in the end movie looks so gay
(j/k)

	27-05-2001 07:13									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Does anyone know if these file formats are Activisions. Some companies create their own and don't like giving them to the public. I think simcity uses a specific file format. I would love to be able to edit the terrain that's what I liked most about modding civ2 Yeah the restrictions was one of the reasons I quit the Mod editor post.

	29-05-2001 21:18									#15
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I think the file is an Activision type. There are other types of *.til files, but they are different from Activision's. However, I think they are just CTP file formats, and so Activision shouldn't mind letting us edit them, now CTP is dead.

What exactly was the role of a mod editor Darkknight? We don't have enough mods for CTP2 to need much editing

	29-05-2001 22:10									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Would a mod editor make people like WesW's job any easier? I know he is putting a lot of time into the MedMod2, and anything that would help him out would be worth it. In my opinion anyway!

	31-05-2001 01:24									#17
	Damn them Put an end to popups!

What I loved about Civ 2 was the modding. If was so easy if you spent an hour or so fiddeling with it. CTP2. I havn't a clue how to mod it. The editor screen is to large and confusing! I hope they reply to the letter, and give you modders some decent modding equiptment! Oh, and you could senfd this if they refuse to let you have them
It scares me......

:0

	31-05-2001 01:31									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Actually, the til editor wont make modding any easier, but it will make it possible to do more modding, of tile improvements and terrain graphics.

On a related topic, I emailed Martin the Dane (creator of the *.zfs editor for CTP) about whether he would have a go at writing some software than will decompress .til files, cos Activision are such gits... He has agreed to give it a shot, so things are looking more hopeful.

	31-05-2001 03:19									#19
	Got spare money?

Yeah! great news immbot.
I took up the post around dec15 or so just before Christmas so there wasn't many mods out around then. I made a few of my own at the start but left the heavy duty (Slic) modding to programmers. I had to gather knowledge on all the various parts of modding and help newbies along. But there was so many areas I couldn't really know it all and Mark wanted some tutorials for newbies about all the different files. I didn't have time and the modding was dieing down a bit so I resigned. I only had it for about five weeks.
I'm still looking for my 400 posts that I was supposed to get I could upload my own avator if I had those. Now I have to slog through 200 more posts.
It was good fun, got to help a load of people and I got to know how a game like this is made. so not a dissapointment.

Shane

	31-05-2001 03:38									#20
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Shame about the post count thing
I would subtely suggest floating down to the OT, but post-count no longer counts there, so just keep posting I guess...
I think the post of Mod Editor has been taken on by the collective group here, everyone is willing to answer questions and stuff.

	31-05-2001 04:14									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

That's good news about Martin the Dane.

Btw, Wombat. Thanks for the tip about getting a city's production over in CTP1. It was just the idea I needed. Great lateral thinking!

	31-05-2001 12:44									#22
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I didn't say easier, I said better. There's a difference That's good news though, but one thing, how do I instal mods, without overwrighting the original game files. Is there a mod controller like with Close Combat games?

:0

	31-05-2001 14:52									#23
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quote: Originally posted by The Evans I didn't say easier,

Rhuarc asked

There are two ways to install mods.
1) Like the MedMod, use modswapper (download program and readmes here.) This makes all the gamefiles swap from the default and use the mods ones, assuming they are named slightly differently. See the medmod, or CityMod2 for examples.

2) Put it into a scenario directory, copy the layout of the Activision scenarios, then start a game using "select scenario" This is not ideal because of various savegame bugs, but it is easier to get the hang of.

	01-06-2001 01:15									#24
	ModSwapper Full PM-box? Change here!

I also know two other methods:

3. You put in a *.zip file all the necessary files with file structure. This method has the disadvantage that it will overwride all the original files, you can't swap back if you want to play a scen or another mod and you forgot saving the overwritten files.

4. The method used in HARLAN'S GRAPHICS MOD for CTP1 and Citymod for CTP2 was renaming the files to something else Harlan used a suffix (MODPACK) and also Citymod (MOD). The second step is to tell the user were these modded files goes. The third step is renaming the original files to something else and the final step is to cut of the suffix. Instead of the suffix you can also use a prefix. For ModSwapper you just need to add three files to the list.

ModSwapper is a very powerfull but sinple program. First it searchs for a *.txt file with gamefile in the filename. The gamefile.txt contains a list of all files that are in the ..\ctp2_data\default\gamedata\.

For example:

code:


citysize.txt
diplomacyproposal.txt
diplomacythreat.txt
advancelists.txt
personalities.txt
feat.txt
endgameobjects.txt
CM2_citystyle.txt
CM2_agecitystyle.txt
CityMod2 (Deutsch)
CM2_newsprite.txt
CM2_Great_Library.txt

	01-06-2001 03:45									#25
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The first one that you suggest is an overwrite, which The Evans asked to avoid, and the second is an overwrite with backups made, so

	01-06-2001 16:42									#26
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I know that both possibilities are very ,therefore I explained how ModSwapper work. I didn't find any readme or other documentation about it. Every mod should be for Modswapper. So you can play this mod, today, and another mod tomorrow. This program is the golden way to install a mod and is of course very . it should be in the Apolyton CTP2 Database.

-Martin

	01-06-2001 19:18									#27
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Yeah, I agree, ModSwapper is a great tool. Just scenarios should need the scenario structure.

	01-06-2001 19:24									#28
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Thanks, but either it was too complicated for me to understand, or I didn't really care I'll look at the mod-swapper sometime. But not now, Thanks for the "help" (/brain hurting waffle)

:0

	02-06-2001 05:51									#29
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I hate complicated programs. I just do it the manual way.
I also hate it were you come back after 10 minutes to find this screen waiting for you to reply and you cant remember what you were going to say

	23-06-2001 03:06									#30
	Remove this text

BUMP

Locutus, I think the time has come to send the letter.
I think that probably you are right, and that it would be better off going through a member of the A-team, and sometime before Activision go backrupt.
If you could send it as a letter, then I would be very grateful.

Whatever you think would be best. Thanks

Ben