23-05-2000 20:30									#1
	Openciv3 - Diplomacy Full PM-box? Change here!

Diplomacy

Started: May 23rd 2000
Updated: -

I haven't got yet any finished ideas for this subject. I will send them when they are ready. You others may send ideas here freely.

	26-05-2000 23:26									#2
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Some small points;

1. You should be able to buy & sell land from other Civs

2. It should be possible to arrange large transfers of cities & units. eg. I'll give you these 3 cities & these 7 units for your 2 bases on this island.

	31-05-2000 20:09									#3
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Pris:

Yes, those should be possible. Also, I think the treaties between civs should be more flexible, and there should be more options - from demanding the changing of a borderline, to creating an alliance (or even federation) of countries (where no member nation is more powerful than others) like the European Union.

I hope I can compile some ideas for this section soon.

	01-06-2000 02:36									#4
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I think borders are a must, but not like in SMAC. Once you have claimed a piece of land it should take a foreign invasion or a treaty to lose it, not someone building a city there. Early on your borders might be the land around your cities (though not at some predetermined radius, rather shaping around landfeatures, i.e. a city near a river might give you land on one bank of that river. Or a city near the mountains might give you a vast area of plains in one direction, but not too much land, with the border stopping at the mountains.)

	01-06-2000 23:54									#5
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Victor:
I agree losing land because some rival Civ builds a city next to your border was irritating but border tensions are realistic and add to the challenge. So how about;

1. Building a new city should not change the borders unless the bordering land has not been claimed.

2. You can claim opposition terriroty by stationing troops on the land for a set period of time (say 10 turns). This allows for diplomacy & force to be used to resolve the situation.

	02-06-2000 01:23									#6
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"2. You can claim opposition terriroty by stationing troops on the land for a set period of time (say 10 turns). This allows for diplomacy & force to be used to resolve the situation."

-I would say it's "yours" immmediately; however, it would have occupied territory status until you put down any insurrections, and/or controlled it for awhile. The amount of time this would take would depend on several factors, though mainly the ethnic makeup. If you are liberating land, passing through with an army might be enough to make it yours (maybe double move cost to simulate round up and neutralization of hostile forces), whereas if you were conquering some land, it would take seeveral turns. If sparseley inhabited it would become yours very quickly.

	03-06-2000 18:50									#7
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Victor and Pris:

I agree with Victor, military control of an area should be enough to call it your own. However, people living on that land would remain uncooperative for some time, if you are a conquerer. It could be possible, that if the people are treated badly by the civ from which you take the land, they could consider you as liberator even if that land has never belonged to you.

Also, if you conquer some land, the enemy could try to solve the situation by diplomatic negotiations, for example offering you compensations, units, or some another piece of land.

	06-06-2000 12:08									#8
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Why don't we have a word makeup thingy for diplomacy? Like adlib?
You begin diplomacy with a series of buttons you use to form a sentance, and would go from word to word until finished statements are made.
First you have the choices "I beg, I request, I demand, F... You, I will" and second would be a listing of "That you do the following, that you do not do the following" and follow that with another series of options followed again by another option list etc etc. This way you can make your own demands to the computer...
"I demand-That you do the following-Attack-The Soviets"
"I beg-That you do the following-Make peace with-Me"
"I demand-That you do the following-surrender to-Me-No conditions no terms"
"I request-that you do not do the following-trade with-the mayans-city of-Palenque"
"I demand-a formal apology for-the battle of-Crete"

I also totally agree with the idea of using land and borders and stuff in diplomacy, this system would provide the ability to haggle with the AI on treaties and hammering out deals.

	06-06-2000 18:59									#9
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Guildmaster:

Yes, I had something like that in my mind, too. We definitely need a system that allows you to construct the sentences you send to the ai opponents. That shouldn't be very difficult. Then for each "sentence element type" we could make different choices of "politeness": for each one fo those we would make several choices of words to add some variety.

There should also be different kinds of "requests" not only demands; like you could apologize for something, or boast with something, suggest a cooperative project, etc.