14-10-2000 16:44									#1
	Demo .1 and 1 Plan Increase Your PM Length

Joker and I have just discussed this and we believe we should make a plan for Demo .1 and 1 detaikling what parts of what models need to be implemented.

Demo .1 will be the map, with one walking unit demonstrating pre-planned turns


Demo one will contain the econ and pop models, but we need to know what to contain.

Please Post

	15-10-2000 16:01									#2
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Very good start! We should be able to handl this now. Make a good plan (who does what) and get started. I think it's a big step forward in the development of the game. If there is a stert, we can expand and expand this further...

	15-10-2000 19:31									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I agree with this too.

I don't think the demo 1 should contain the econ and pop models. All demo 1 should be is a unit that you can move around on a map with the characteristics that Guildmaster and Amjayee designed.

While doing this we should develop textbased econ and pop demos. later on, when these 3 demos have been developed more, we can link them together.

So basically we have 3 things that we need to develop:

1: Visual map demo with a unit

2: Textbased pop demo

3: Textbased econ demo

These are the things that we should focus on developing. For me #1 is the hardest one to create. I can't really program, and I (obviously) don't have any game developing experience, so I don't really know how I can contribute to the development of that.

Therefor I am concentrating my work on #2 and #3. We should hear from Amjayee's how programming the econ demo is going, and what problems he is facing, before we can continue designing that.

I have primarily been working on the pop demo, and I am on the way to program a textbased demo of it (this is also great programming experience for me). It will be dosbased for the now, but later on I should be able to convert it into a windowsbased program.

I agree with Elmo that we need a good plan, to find out who will do what. So everybody should just post here what they would like to do.

BTW: should we have another meeting soon? I never attended any of them, but from what I've read from the last one (which is some time ago) you got a great deal done with it. I think it might speed up the development process to get together (online) and discuss some things.

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	16-10-2000 00:34									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Meeting...
An excellent idea, I'm glad I thought of it first. =)

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	16-10-2000 13:14									#5
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So when should we have it?

I have a vacation this week, so apart from today, tomorrow and thursday I am free all week.

How about next weekend?

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	18-10-2000 02:56									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Does anybody have an idea on how to make a unit-on-a-map demo?

Maybe we could just copy some FreeCiv code and log it with our map?

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"I chose not to choose life. I chose something else."
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	18-10-2000 14:42									#7
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Hi Joker

Vet Legion has just announced on the mailing list that he has coded a prototype that can display PNG images, so with a bit of hard yakka we could probably get it ready one week in the future.

	18-10-2000 20:39									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I don't really know what PNG is, but this still sounds great.

I still don't know what I as a designer (I can't program anything complex) can help to speed up the development of a demo. So I think someone else should just take control of the development of the demo (you, heardie, since Amjayee seems too buissy and since you are pretty devoted right now) and becomes really bossy and tells me what I should do to help. I am happy to do what you ask me to.

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"I chose not to choose life. I chose something else."
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	18-10-2000 23:01									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Isn't PNG an image type, or am I wrong? This unit-on-map-demo is a start that certainly could speeden up the development.

And about the mailing list. Who recieve these mailings? Not me...

	19-10-2000 10:25									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Youu are right, PNG (Portable Network Graphics) is an image type, and the one most likly to be used in this game.

Joker - There isn't much to do at the mommennt. I say work on your c++.

	19-10-2000 18:15									#11
	Suffering from ads?

The map prototype we have, we just need to draw a unit sprite on it. I was going to try it out, but haven't done it yet. The PNG stuff we need in future, since we are going to use .png images for sprites. So basically, drawing a unit on the map is quite a speedy task, but since no one else than me knows how the map works, and since I don't have much time right now (exams coming in a week), I can't say when it would be ready. After the exams I will have plenty of time, and I'm certain to work with the map. Actually getting the unit moving on the map needs more work; I would need to re-structure the program, since it was originally made only for testing the map drawing code. That would be needed anyway, so it's ok.

So; when I have one hour time to find out how to blit sprites on my map, I will have single unit standing on the terrain in no time. To make the unit move (at least under the command of the player; it would of course be easy to make the unit wander randomly about the map), and to use the .png files, will take longer, couple of days of intense coding. So, when I can make that ready, depends much on how the things should be prioritized. In two weeks my second period starts, and then I have much more free time. Then I will have to divide my time between the economy demo and map demo (among other free-time activities). Then, there's also the UI code for the game that I need to do, since there are no other directx capable programmers for now. I would dare to say, that this year all that could be done, but in what order? What do you think is the most important thing to do right now?

	20-10-2000 00:10									#12
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Sorry that we are just throwing all the work at you, Amjayee. We all understand that you wont have time to do it all. So just do as much as you want and have time for, and we will try to do as much design as we can in the meantime.

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"I chose not to choose life. I chose something else."
- Trainspotting

	20-10-2000 20:42									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

VetLegion said he can also do some things. And it's ok if I get lots of work, that means practice, and practice means experience, which is good. The only drawback from this situation is, that the work will progress slowly. But we are in no hurry, I hope...

	21-10-2000 00:21									#14
	Remove this text

Not really. So all in all things are pretty good!

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"I chose not to choose life. I chose something else."
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	29-10-2000 16:36									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Right, not to bad... And I think a map demo is a big priority because if we have such an demo, it may attract new members (or at least quicker than the other demos).

	31-10-2000 19:39									#16
	Remove this text

I agree. Having a map of some sort, even a very simple one, would be a big step. I'm looking forward to seeing it!

So what will be the system requirements? What OS are you programming for? Will you use DirectX (if OS == Win9x)?

And most importantly, When will we be seeing the first demo? (HA, am I the first one to ask that question so far? )

Ron

	01-11-2000 12:57									#17
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We do already have "some sort" of a map. It can be found from our webpage. And it is quite simple, though it forms the framework for the final map.

We will be making the game for Windows and DirectX. Though our intention is to make it as platform independent as possible, so in future it might be possible to make at least a Linux version without too much fuss. (Well at least with relatively little fuss.)

For a full-blown demo (meaning here an alpha stage demo) you will have to wait quite some time. At least 1.5 years. Though simpler demos (or prototypes, as we prefer to call them) will become available earlier, hopefully already this autumn. And frankly you weren't the first one to ask this.

	01-11-2000 15:45									#18
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Just a question: What will an alpha demo include? I thought the alpha demo would be the unit moving on a map.......

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	02-11-2000 13:02									#19
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Ok, we had once some talk about this with the programmers, but here I will clear this out also for designers. These terms are quite commonly used. Here is what we mean by them:

Gold means the final version of the game. All features are in place and working. At this stage usually only patches to fix bugs are made. This is about a lightyear ahead for us.

Beta demo means a version where all features are in place but not yet completely working as expected; it is used mainly for the final debugging.

Alpha demo means a version where most of the features are already in place, but not yet with full functionality. This is the phase used for final development phase of the program. Even this is really far ahead for us.

All other versions are prorotypes; they usually have only some of the features, and are used mainly for testing the ideas for the final program; they are in no way final. My map thing was the first map prototype; the economy thing could be called economy model prototype; and VetLegion is about to finish something that could be called the first real prototype of the game, since it has multiple features of the final game. He calls it prototype .01, which tells something about how far on the development path we are now...

	02-11-2000 17:38									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Thanks! It's pretty nice to know what all those names really mean.

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