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RonHiler
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California, USA
May 2000
time: 21:14
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Hey gang,
Okay, it's now been one year since the inception of GG&S. I think it is fair to say that at this point, y'all need to start thinking about getting out of the prototyping stage and begin thinking about an actual program.
After a year of discussion, I think you guys probably have a pretty good idea of the game you want to make (I hope! Otherwise I'm going to begin to worry a bit!). Even if you haven't got every last detail down, you should have enough to make some kind of start at the UI and some of the more fundamental systems.
I write this not to critisize, but hopefully to light a bit of a fire and get things rolling. I've seen lots of interesting discussion, but precious little in the way of results. Maybe you're just hiding them from me? 
If you don't yet feel you have enough that you can begin some programming, you need to focus on getting to that point as soon as you can. Drop anything that doesn't immediately need to be done, get the decisions made, and get that UI started! Your best resources are the people who are interested in your product, and can give you objective third-party opinions on what they like and don't like. But you need to give them something to play with first, and they aren't going to wait around forever if nothing seems to be forthcoming.
Just some freindly advice from that other programming team
Ron
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VetLegion
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Ron, this is an OK question.
As said we mostly use the mailing list to exchange coding ideas and code. We have agreed to release something at least a little playable, not prototypes, that is why we havent released anything yet.
Now a year is a long period ... I have written lots of code before in much less time. Personally, I would also like more results then we have now. I certainly did less then I want to, due to time and other constraints.
We are going to have something soon, and dont worry, fellow civers will be first to know.
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Thanks for your input Ron. It's nice to see someone cares where this project is going. 
As was said above, we try to separate the design and implementation. The programming stuff is discussed on the mailing list and IRC meetings, whereas Apolyton forum should be understandable to any Civ fan. This seems like a good idea, though we definitely should do more status reports here.
What we have now is an UI demo. It's bascily a library of buttons, windows and the like. Unlike MD, we have ended up scrapping the standard Win32 look and creating our own. The benefits are that it looks neat and that it's portable, not to even mention that it is fun to program stuff like that (though I haven't been involved in programming myself yet).
Now, our efforts are concentrating on making a framework on top of which the game can be built. We need to solve the issues of internal architecture, multiplayer game, turn handling, modularity and other basic things like that. Now that the turn system is at least agreed upon (well, almost...), there should be some progress soon. Also, there is some effort to come up with map routines, though we are hampered by lack of programmer resources now that chrispie got a job.
Our unofficial (perhaps it is official now that I say it here ) goal is that the framework will be done by summer. It will function as a test bed for various demo implementations, so this really should open the floodgates for all sorts of parallel releases. The framework will be put to CVS and if all goes well, it will incrementally be developed into the final product (in the course of 2-3 years, if we're really fast). This may not be much of a release for the general public, but it should help us recruit more programmers and thus send a signal that we're alive and kicking. In the mean time, perhaps we could put up the UI demo or something? And the map/government demos once they are in decent shape? Webmasters?
Leland
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Guildmaster
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Up your butt and around the corner
Jun 2000
time: 05:14
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In case any of you are curious, I'm still around. I have been very busy with school lately though.
I haven't posted much because there hasn't been any game development as far as I can see. Mostly whay I see is programming stuff which I choose to know nothing about. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't have the capability to program, moreso that between work, school, and women I don't have the time to learn another programming language now. So I pretty much sit back and watch the programmers program.
If you want any input on how the game actually plays feel free to post on that topic...
------------------
He's spreading funk throughout the nations
And for you he will play
Electronic Super-Soul vibrations
He's come to save the day
- Lenny Kravitz
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RonHiler
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California, USA
May 2000
time: 21:14
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quote:
Originally posted by ElmoTheElk on 03-19-2001 02:02 PM
To secure this, we need some sort of copyright licence, altough i'm not very into the open source-licences...
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There seems to be a bit of confusion here about copyrights. There is no such thing as a copyright license. I am not a lawyer, but as I understand it, this is how it works.
A copyright is automatic. As soon as you put pen to paper or code to screen, or in any form create anything, it is copyrighted to you, without you having to do anything else. This is true whether or not you have a copyright notice or symbol attached. The only time this is not true is if you have a statement specifically to the effect that you give up all copyright rights to the product in question.
You can register a copyright with the government, just to have proof, if you like. This gives you no extra benefits of any kind, but it does give you proof should there be some dispute in court. I would think this forum's archives would have the same purpose (you can point to them and say "This clearly shows we came up with the concept, and implemented the ideas"). Registering a copyright generally requires you send them some sort of hard copy of the product, which is not so applicable to programs in mid-creation.
So I wouldn't worry too much about copyright issues. Put a copyright notice on your program, and modify it to allow use of the source, if you like. You may want to take a look at a copy of the GNU license for how they handle open-source code distribution (and license is a bad word, it's simply a statement of what rights they retain and which they wave as regards to use of the code).
Ron
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VetLegion
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Yeah, as Ron said, copyright is automatic... I dont think it will be a problem to us.
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quote:
Originally posted by RonHiler on 03-20-2001 10:20 AM
Put a copyright notice on your program, and modify it to allow use of the source, if you like. You may want to take a look at a copy of the GNU license for how they handle open-source code distribution (and license is a bad word, it's simply a statement of what rights they retain and which they wave as regards to use of the code).
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Apparently we've selected zlib/libpng license as our preferred form of protection. Does anyone know what was the rationale behind it? I am not saying that I disagree, I find the license very straightforward and compact and don't know enough about copyright laws to tell whether it is appropriate for us or not. You can find the license here:
http://opensource.org/licenses/zlib-license.html
That was snipped from http://opensource.org , and it is in accordance with their Open Source Definition. I suppose we could start using GPL or come up with a license of our own, but I am not qualified to tell whether there is any need. I didn't even have the patience to read through GPL.
But this license is really applicable only to source code. That's just one part of the software, and because it is our current goal to make the game as customizable as possible it may be necessary to copyright graphics, texts, music(?) and other media separately. The design documents are probably something that is copyrighted automatically, and even if they weren't at least I wouldn't have any trouble with them being in public domain.
As for publishing source code now, I am not sure if that's necessary. Anyone who is interested can join the mailing list and ask the source from there, and grand public isn't probably interested in anything but the binaries. So, what if we put the executable of the UI demo on the web right away, but wait until we get CVS and all that crap ready before systematically starting to publish the source?
Leland
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The Joker
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Copenhagen, Denmark
Aug 1999
time: 06:14
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I don't think we should make putting the UI demo on the website into a really big deal. Yeah, it's great. But as Chris says it's just a few buttons to press. It is a shell with nothing in it.
So I think that we should wait with the bignewsflash untill we have an actual demo.
------------------
I distrust those who pray; for they are putting their lives in the hands of strangers.
GGS Website
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13-03-2001 06:52
More updates soon, when I have more time. 
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