03-05-2002 23:34									#271
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Impressive.
I'll start taking a look at stuff, and hopefully something will start moving again.

	04-05-2002 14:10									#272
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

We have a mailing list at http://sourceforge.net/projects/ggstoc/. It hasn't been used much lately, but meeting logs etc. are usually posted there.

	16-05-2002 15:44									#273
	Remove this text

About "L'INVITATION AU VOYAGE":

I do not know what the problem is, but I am not happy with the current situation, to say the least.

The deadline for Spring 1877 has passed, but I have received orders from only two players, while I expected orders from six players.
Those two have received from me -I suppose- an acknowledgement of receipt.

I ask all other players -those who have not received this acknowledgement of receipt- to explain in this thread what happened: whether they have sent in any orders or not, at what time, etc.
Before making decisions I have to be sure whether this delay has been caused by technical problems or by other reasons.

S.Kroeze

	16-05-2002 20:07									#274
	Suffering from ads?

I can only talk for myself, but I simply forgot to send my orders. I did it a moment ago, so I am leaving it to your jurisdiction whether to count this as an NMR or not.

	16-05-2002 20:25									#275
	Get a bigger avatar today!

My my, this could mean my salvation after all...

	17-05-2002 03:56									#276
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

sander

i have been in and out of town and i mistakenly assumed that the deadline was still 18:00 GMT like it was last week, and i sent the orders to you as soon as i got in this morning which you recieved at 11:47 GMT instead of 10:00 GMT i appologize, though for me a single never changing deadline works the best (preferably 17:00-20:00 GMT because of my schedule)

on a technical note though, i myself can no longer send you email from my account, the last email i sent came back as a failed message, so something like this may have happened to the other players since orders were discussed and agreeded upon

	17-05-2002 12:30									#277
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I hate to sound like "my dog eat my homework" but I am decorating my apartment (moved all my furniture to paint the walls) and I couldn't use my home PC. I send you my orders now to the mail adress that appers at 'Poly.

	17-05-2002 18:31									#278
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by korn469 sander i have been in and out of town and i mistakenly assumed that the deadline was still 18:00 GMT like it was last week, and i sent the orders to you as soon as i got in this morning which you recieved at 11:47 GMT instead of 10:00 GMT i appologize, though for me a single never changing deadline works the best (preferably 17:00-20:00 GMT because of my schedule) on a technical note though, i myself can no longer send you email from my account, the last email i sent came back as a failed message, so something like this may have happened to the other players since orders were discussed and agreeded upon

Within the 24 hours after my previous post I have received two other sets of orders which I have decided to accept.
I admit this is a somewhat arbitrary decision.
Most consistent would have been to make a game report with 4 NMRs, but this would definitely not contribute to the interest of the game.

I do not have a problem with the way Korn469 sends me his orders.
I think it is reasonable that it's me -and no one else- who determines the exact point of the deadline. I have other responsibilities too!
I always try to send the report as soon as possible after the deadline.

I can only repeat my often repeated request to send your orders in time, at least 24 hours before the deadline.

	30-05-2002 23:41									#279
	Suffering from ads?

About "L'INVITATION AU VOYAGE":

One of the players has asked me -because of computer problems- to extend the deadline for Spring 1878 for 24 hours.
Though this delay should have been requested at an earlier stage, I have nevertheless decided to grant it. Yet I hope this will be a once-only departure. Of course I will always grant a delay that is timely requested.
So the new deadline will become 31st May 2002, 20.00PM (GMT).
I hope to send you the next game report as soon as possible.

My love to all players!

	07-06-2002 18:53									#280
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Again I have received -a few hours before the deadline of "L'INVITATION AU VOYAGE" - the request to extend the deadline.
I would like to bring to your attention again my original ruling:

IMPORTANT: Please do not send your orders on the last minute! When they arrive too late -whatever the cause- your units will hold. When you foresee problems with a deadline, please inform me as soon as possible and NOT afterwards. It is allowed to send in temporary orders and to change them later, sending a new list of orders. In that case, please make it clear that those new orders do replace the original set.

I think it is beyond discussion that a few hours before the deadline is not as soon as possible.
In my previous post I had made it clear that delay should have been requested at an earlier stage and that I didn't like to make an exception again. When players prefer to play with less frequent deadlines that could be a possibility. We can discuss such things frankly and I am willing to take into consideration the wishes of ALL players.

But this delay asked at the last minute, I am not willing to grant! It would be most unfair to those players who respect my rulings and send their orders always in good time. I also think most of you would prefer to have this affair over rather sooner than later.
I hope -and expect- to receive orders from ALL players before the deadline: 7th June 2002, 20.00PM (GMT).

Sincerely,

S.Kroeze

	07-06-2002 21:54									#281
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by S. Kroeze I also think most of you would prefer to have this affair over rather sooner than later.

Yeah, certainly now I have exams coming up.

	08-06-2002 03:14									#282
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I was the one who asked for the extension, i have worked about 60 hours this week, so i didn't have time for any diplomacy this week, but i say we should go ahead and vote M@ni@c in as champion of this game. He is the clear leader at this point and it would take a miracle for us to induce a stalemate much less for anyone of us to actually win. With the way my schedule is at the moment I think i would need 10 day to 2 week turn deadlines to have adequate time to always get a good set of orders that has been discussed with all of the other players and it is highly doubtful that it is worth it.

I am glad though that Sander invited me to play, i had never played diplomacy before and it is a quite enjoyable game; i only wish i had more time to conduct more and better diplomacy.

Anyways here is my vote for M@ni@c as winner of L'INVITATION AU VOYAGE

	08-06-2002 19:25									#283
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I second that. I haven't even read the game reports since spring 1976 anyway, so I don't know how many centers everyone's got (yes, I know I could check it with a few clicks... I'm too lazy), but if the game does not end this year consider my remaining units holding from now on. Adios amigos.

	09-06-2002 01:36									#284
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

As I said before, it isn't fun to play by obligation. I enjoy the game, but I see that there are some who don't enjoy it anymore, so I say to end it and call France the winner.

If there will be another game, I want in!

	10-06-2002 00:55									#285
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Mihai As I said before, it isn't fun to play by obligation. I enjoy the game, but I see that there are some who don't enjoy it anymore, so I say to end it and call France the winner. If there will be another game, I want in!

I would like to point out that most dedicated players and definitely ALL GMs will share my conviction that -besides an emergency- it is reasonable to expect all players starting a Diplomacy game to play on till the end. I am not speaking about those kind souls serving as substitutes.
But for those who by their own free will did choose to participate in a new game, this is exactly what is to be expected from them. Obviously winning is more enjoyable than losing, yet for the weak elimination will come sooner or later.
Those unable to bear the loss are recommended to play other -less demanding- games.

This is still my 'game philosophy':
It is my unshakable conviction a Diplomacy game should never be terminated otherwise than by fulfilment of the victory (=18 supply centres) conditions or a draw proposal accepted by ALL active players on the board.
And actually I consider this second solution vastly inferior to the first. Only some unbreakable stalemate position could force me to accept a draw proposal!

This opinion applies both to participating as a player and to running it as a GM.

When we will ever start another game -rather unlikely- I expect the players to be more committed.

	10-06-2002 02:27									#286
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

S. Kroeze

I understand your position and I can see a certain beauty in a hopeless fight till the end. My only concers was the NMRs. In respect for your dedication to this game, I will keep playing to the end.

Remember Alamo!

PS I don't like chess because is too abstract for my taste. Diplomacy is much more intersting. If there will be another game and I will be invited from the begining, I'll start learning 'the openings'. Also I am avaible if you need a substitute.

	10-06-2002 02:54									#287
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

0kay then. That issue has been decided. We'll keep playing. I guess I'll have won in two three years.

	10-06-2002 02:55									#288
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I challenge you all.

	10-06-2002 21:19									#289
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

challenge accepted!

prepare to be stalemated

	11-06-2002 19:08									#290
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Okay, any chance I could give my command of my units to someone who still cares? Either that, or I'll just NMR so we can end this as quickly as possible. I have no honor as a diplomacy player, I know... But last turn we had three NMR's already, isn't that an indication that the game is as dead as it gets?

Mihai: I suggest you take a look at the game queues at www.diplom.org and sign up for a game in one of the "judges". I find the interface in judges to be much more enjoyable than a hand-adjudicated games, not the least because typos and NMRs are practically eliminated.

Last edited by Leland on 11-06-2002 at 19:15

	12-06-2002 01:09									#291
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well, I Must say I would personally like to stop as well. It is about *fun* after all, not about having to finish this no matter what. The only problem is amjayee hasn't responded yet to the end-of-game proposal. If he also agrees, I'm won.

	12-06-2002 01:43									#292
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I do not allow proxy orders.

Of course players can always -as often as they like- send in proposals to end this game, determining places for all participating players, not just the winner.
As soon as ALL players with units on the board are willing to accept this proposal, the game is over.
The previous proposals were both rejected.

	13-06-2002 00:58									#293
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

At the request of one of the players, next deadline for our game, "L'INVITATION AU VOYAGE", Spring 1879, will be extended till 16th June 2002, 12.00AM (GMT).

I do not know how players are evaluated so could you please explain that to me and could you also explain how players get scored when a stalemate occurs compared to when one player captures 18 supply centers.

The rules of play say hardly anything about the evaluation of game results. They just state:
II. OBJECT OF THE GAME
"As soon as one Great Power controls 18 Supply Centres, it is said to have "gained control of Europe," and the player representing that Great Power is the winner. Players may terminate the game by mutual agreement before a winner is determined, in which case all players who still have pieces on the board share equally in a draw."

As a result most GMs have developed their own scoring systems; there are dozens of different systems!
This is mine:
First 'game rating' is determined: the total amount of the individual ratings of all players. First-time players start with an individual rating of 100 points. 'Game rating' of "L'INVITATION AU VOYAGE" was 675.20 at the start of the game.
When the game is over these points are divided among the participants of a six-player game as follows:
45% for the winner
8% for second place
6% for third place
4% for fourth place
2% for fifth place
1% for sixth place
0% for 'dropouts'
1% for every supply centre controlled at the last supply centre count

When there is a draw or a shared place, the combined score of the shared places is equally divided among the participants of this draw/shared place.
E.g. in case of a three-way draw, all three sharing in the draw will receive 19.67% of the total 'game rating', apart from the points they score for individual supply centres.

I hope my system emphasizes the importance of winning.

	13-06-2002 01:49									#294
	Remove this text

thanks for the explanation of that Sander

	13-06-2002 15:08									#295
	Increase Your PM Length

So I'll have 63%, right?

	23-06-2002 14:37									#296
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Dear GGS'ers playing Diplomacy,

I have a rather sad message: I am through!
As a result of another NMR I have decided to end "L'INVITATION AU VOYAGE" because I do not have the energy to seek (again) a replacement. This makes M@ni@c the winner of the game.
HURRAY!!!

I do not like this decision -I think this is quite exceptional- but I think everyone will be happy it is over. In particular I would like to thank the many kind souls acting as substitutes. Thank you all!

more details will follow

Sincerely,

S.Kroeze

	23-06-2002 15:39									#297
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

PEACE IN EUROPE!!!

The game "L'INVITATION AU VOYAGE" is over!
After the sudden extinction of the Austrian-Hungarian royal family their country fell to anarchy. The League of Nations decided to intervene and to enforce peace.
Final result:

1. FRANCE (M@ni@c)
2. AUSTRIA-HUNGARY (Misfit/Nath/Korn469/Anarchy)
3. TURKEY (The Diplomat/Amjayee)
4. RUSSIA (Hobbes/Mihai)
5. GERMANY (Leland)
6. ENGLAND (The Joker)

I kindly invite all participants to write a so-called game end statement and post it in the new thread I have created.
Please do so!

S.Kroeze, GM

Last edited by S. Kroeze on 23-06-2002 at 15:48