27-10-2000 17:46									#1
	Germany: looking for advice Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

There are a lot of theories on what to do for germany. The usual options are to either ally with F against E or the other way around. Few people also advice GR or even GRE alliances.

I would like to know what your experiences as France, England and Germany are. Mind: I donīt need new abstract theories, I need experiences. What was the reason you chose this or that alliance? What were the main obstacles for your opening? If you realized you were stabbed, what told you? Was there anything in the letters that helped you trust or mistrust your neighbors?

	27-10-2000 18:42									#2
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From my experience (and it just doesn't include last year's tournament), if you're Germany, France is a far more dangerous threat than England is. England is confined to the isles at the start, but France can immediately attack you. That being said, I suggest you ally with England against France, with plans for a backstab against the English later in the game.

	28-10-2000 09:42									#3
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Sahib,
I have to concur with Reismark, France is much more dangerous. Do everything you can to disarm your border and go for the three build, Bel, Den and Hol. Promise England help with Swe in the following turn to trade for Bel. Whether you give help the following turn is up to you but in the mean time you have three builds and now your defensive and you get to see who is sleeping with who. My experience is with Apolyton draw champ with Germany and now with Germany in the WM with one move under the belt. I truely believe those three builds are extremely critical to Germany survival or win. Convince France to go after the two in Sp and Por, but disarm your border. Hope this helps.

	28-10-2000 00:19									#4
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For ally with Italy and Austria. They make good allies and won't stab you. Talk with Italy. If he's up for an immediate attack on France go for it.
In Thyferran Dip I did this and England and France bounced in the Channel, Russia bounced England out of Norway, and Belgium stayed empty (forget what happened there exactly, but Italy threatened Mar which kept him from supporting himself into Bel I think) but England and France both ended up with zero builds the first year. But soon after Coug stopped GMing that game
I'd recomend sending your fleet to Den, that way you can make Russia to what you want by threatening him to bounce him out of Swe . Secure Hol and don't get too greedy about Bel, it could make France and England ally against you.

	28-10-2000 18:47									#5
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I agree with Boshko here: Germany should not get too greedy. After all, we all know the early leader syndrom, right? ;-) My plan is has been this:

I will open rather neutrally: to Den, Kie, Ruh

I offered England Bel (and I am sure France offered the same) I am willing to let him have it if he - as he promised - opens to the channel.

I am yet undecided about the bounce with Russia in Swe, I will decide that after S01. Russia seeks a three party ERG alliance. It is not usual but possible, but I do not believe in it. Of course I will try to alienate E and R ;-)

Anyone ever thried a german-russian cooperation?

	28-10-2000 23:28									#6
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"Anyone ever thried a german-russian cooperation?"
Yeah I tried my very best as russia in rr dip, until Monk stabbed me I had a fleet in Nth and was offering convoys to england and everything
ended in a RGI three-way with a Russian army in Berlin
the co-operation if nice while it lasts...

	29-10-2000 02:14									#7
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Well, as England in my own game, I'm allied with Germany and semi-allied with Italy in a semi-true triple alliance against one country - France. When Meef told me that about France's player, how ruthless he was and how he wins easily by being that way, I decided that it was in my best interests to eliminate France as quickly as possible.

In the entire game, only Germany and I seem to be the ones talking. Everyone else seems to be pretty quiet. Anyway S01 moves came out and Italy made a very strong western opening, with moves to Pie, Tyn, and Ven. Germany made an anti-French opening while mine was pretty anti-French (move to Nth, Eng for a pre-arranged bounce, and Wal), we'll see how France reacts.

We've already divvied up the SC's. Italy gets Mar and Spa, I get Por and Bre, and Germany gets Par and Bel. And Germany basically decided that. To tell you the truth, Germany is like the ringleader of this alliance.

I don't feel that comfy with Bre and Por, since both don't border each other, are rather far away, and Germany gets Bel which is a bit uncomfortably close to me especially since he gets Holland as well. What do you think?

But back to Boshko's game -- England is probably thinking the same thing about France. I realize France's a much bigger threat to me than Germany because Germany can't get to me quite as easily and he has a lot more things to deal with than France does.
[This message has been edited by LordStone1 (edited October 28, 2000).]

	29-10-2000 17:16									#8
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LS1,

it doesnīt matter what you agreed on splitting the SCs. Because when you have broken through MAO with your fleets, itīs only two moves from the MedWest. You simply stab Italy as fast as possible. He should not have enough fleets by then to hold the stalemate line, hopefully. Donīt wait till he has the line secured. Roll right over him as fast as you can. Donīt care fro France. The moment you are through MAO and Germany has Bur secured, France is effectively dead.

Best for you would be if T and R donīt fight from the beginning. Instead you want them to take Austria and then Russia against Germany and Turkey against Italy. You should agree with Turkey to split the mediterreanian along the Tyn line.