01-02-2000 14:45									#1
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When is the best time to change to Republic from Monarchy, especially at Deity level?
From (limited) experience it seems it is best to wait till getting Michelangelo's Chapel (I take the GL,LW then MC route) - but even then I find that I lose military units and settlers and some cities have food problems.
I find this frustrating since other civilisations I play against always seem to change to Republic very early on with few cities and not many developments
Incidentally, I have survived Deity but never have enough time to get to building the space ship - any advice?

	01-02-2000 15:16									#2
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Like all such questions, the answer is, "It depends". If you are expansionist, it might be better to skip Republic completely and wait for Democracy, If hyper-expansionist, wait for Democracy - get SoL and go Fundy (my preference) or Commie (there are many advocates here).
At the other extreme, in OCC rush to Republic with a Temple and Coliseum and celebrate to size ~11 and then go Demo asap - you can sell the Temple & col once you get Shake's

See what I mean, It depends...

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	01-02-2000 15:18									#3
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p.s. Just noticed this is your first post Nick - welcome aboard! and another Brit to boot!

	02-02-2000 10:15									#4
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SG - don't try to boot him just because he's a Brit! (perhaps this is a US/UK slang problem)

Rep in deity for me waits for either HG and temples(myst doubler) w/ some markets or Mikes. I think a lot of folks here take a straight shot at Mikes and then double back for Leo's. That might get you to Mikes fast enough to beat the unhappiness problem.

Cheers!

	02-02-2000 04:21									#5
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i played SP the other day and its just too easy.... i built all the needed wonders and ones i didn't in one city with the caravan thing and then went commie for fun and wasted the ai.... lol now if i could only do that EVERY time in MP i would be happy

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I am a civ addict. ARE U 2??????


icq 30200920

	02-02-2000 15:03									#6
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Sten, "to boot" in British slang simply means "as well" - once I had made the post it occurred to me that it might not translate that well across the pond.

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	03-02-2000 03:08									#7
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My fellow warrior war4 hit the nail on the head (don't ask what that means)... Get the good wonders (Sten is correct in that getting MC than doubling back to Leo), go to Democ than to Fund and then waste the other civs. It's not always that easy (right war4?), but no sense in detouring to Rep along the way to total warfare (geez, I gotta learn to play differently and stop using these parentheses)

	03-02-2000 04:21									#8
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[off topic mode]
SG - We CalifornAmericans use boot the same way you do, but the literal translation is sorta funny. The extensive range of slang meanings for boot is unusual; a recent addition to the mix is found in the context of "Look out, I'm gonna boot," used to denote the need to vomit.
[/off topic mode]

Please continue!
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited February 02, 2000).]

	03-02-2000 04:43									#9
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Right you are Steve...... the map also has a lot to do with how quickly you contain the ai

However pretty much all maps are winable.... and go for Demo.... skip Repub..... its not worth the hassle

	03-02-2000 05:52									#10
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Definitely go for Mike's Chapel first, especially on diety level. Leo's is not nearly as important. Also, go for democracy; republic isn't that great anyway.

	03-02-2000 07:00									#11
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Sivro - there are no absolutes in civ. I've won many deity games without Mikes - for me, the one indispensable wonder is Hanging Gardens.

	03-02-2000 08:52									#12
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Talking about no absolutes - I had NEVER built the Hanging Gardens wonder and yet I can win all/most games at Emperor/Diety.

	03-02-2000 08:56									#13
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DaveV -

I agree wholeheartedly; there are no absolutes. You need to do what the situation calls for. Speaking in general terms, Mike's Chapel has been my most useful wonder. I, too, appreciate the early happiness boost from the HG; I try to build it whenever I can. I have won a lot of games without it, though. I simply can't say the same for Mike's Chapel.

	03-02-2000 14:08									#14
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I would recommend the Hanging Gardens at Emperor/Deity. In a few games, if luck is really with me, I can build the Colossus and HG in the same city. This provides a great early trade boost.

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Scouse Git (2)

	04-02-2000 03:28									#15
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Scouse Gits #1 or 2 i don't remember.....i like to build both in my capoital but often can't .... and i usually scrifice the gardens for it.... i am one of these guys who has to have the colossus no matter what..... its my favorite wonder SP or MP

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icq 30200920

	04-02-2000 15:31									#16
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I hate to lose the Colossus race and have sometimes quit a game for that reason. Although usually I just change to another WOW, typically GW or Pyramids, and pout until I can cheer myself with Copernicus .

It is possible to go to Rep very early, in which case you can grow your cities to ~size 8, churn out one settler each, and double the size of your civ in a very short period of time. Then switch back to Monarchy if you've got some semi-long-distance butt kicking to do.

	05-02-2000 05:17									#17
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"GL,LW then MC"

I have it! You are all Communist spies exchanging secret information! There is no other explanation for all these strange words and sentences.

Waaa!

	05-02-2000 05:20									#18
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Most abbreviations are for Wonders; that narrows the list!

	05-02-2000 21:21									#19
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SS, your reply SB "GL, LW, MC, i.e., WOW".
Clr enuf, RR?

BTW, the responses above don't seem to address going to AC but rather BL (bloodlust). Do y'all skip Republic when going for the SR (space race)?

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited February 05, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited February 05, 2000).]

	06-02-2000 01:59									#20
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Sure do. I think the general strategy is get up the whole tech tree ASAP - so that means Monarchy then Democracy, which I think offers the faster growth path. Since you don't have to worry about fighting an offensive war, just keep the peace as best as possible, build a gazillion caravans - but make sure you beat everyone to the critical techs.

	07-02-2000 05:07									#21
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The problem with early republic is the increased support requirements for food and shields. The benefit is increased trade, and the opporunity to grow with we-love-the-leader. I am not usuallly ready until democracy and SOL. It's not bad to wait.

	14-02-2000 10:28									#22
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In mp double production republic makes a lot more sense earlier on, as the extra trade you can get will really help in we love the consul days.

	14-02-2000 19:46									#23
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So true Matthew... so true.
And, if you are playing a no city bribe mp game, it can even be considered better than democracy, because of the ability to keep one unit out of the city without unhappiness.