31-10-2000 23:28									#1
	Iain and my WM2009 game Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Here is the map of our game and I will explain my ideas in a few minutes and would like suggestions, thank you:

http://www.geocities.com/defiant003/wm2009.gif

	01-11-2000 00:10									#2
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The Fall 1902 moves will be due Thursday and this is my suggestion for this turn and the following year.
France is in deep **** and is looking to strike an alliance with England and I. I believe him sincere for he really has no other choice. France promises to move the MAO > Wes, Mar > Spa and Bur > Mar(to bounce Italy from Mar). In accord, England(Iain) is supposed to move Eng > Mao to help with the R-I-A alliance which could hurt us all. I(Germany) am going back to Mun to protect it against France in case he is lying.

Now what Iain and I are going to do is this:
Iain will take Bre instead of going to MAO and I will take Bel and the end result if it works is a two build season for England and a three build season for Germany. I would like to see Iain get NOr with his army convoying to Nor because he is going to need that Nth fleet to convoy an army to Bel in the Spring.

That takes care of the Fall move and our builds, now for the Spring. I will build an A-Mun, A-Ber and a F-Kie, to Russia this may look like I may be protecting my borders against England, which is what I want.
My moves would be:
A-Den > Swe (with help from Iain)
A-Mun > Sil
A-Ber > Pru
F-Kie > Bal
A-Bel > Ruhr
F-Hol > Kie
Iain would:
A-Edi > Bel convoyed by Nth
A-Nor s German A-Den > Swe (if he is so kind
F-Lon > Eng to support Brest or start advancing down the Atlantic or he could build another army to get it on the coast to go after the struggling France. Haven't decided that yet.

This would put me into a great position against Russia and England has a strong foothold into France, anybody see bad logic or have a better point of view.
Thanks for your suggestions:

	01-11-2000 02:43									#3
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Well, if I was France, I would not trust you. Unless the F ENG was pre-arranged. Otherwise, looking at your moves, I´d view at as an EG.

Now what would I then do, as France?

Difficult. First I would believe you lie to me and try to find out wich moves would be ideal for EG. Answer:

F ENG - Bre
F NTH C A Yor - Nor
F Hol S A Ruh - Bel
A Ruh - Bel
A Kie - Den

Pretty obvious, isn´t it? (BTW, I´ve read your second post only after a close look at the map and analysis)
Next step I would think about what I could do against these moves. This depends on what I hear from Italy. If I believe Italy will call of his attack, seeing that it´s dead in its tracks, I´ll go:

A Bur - Mun
F MAO - Por
A Mar - Spa

This way I may lose Bre, but the fleet there can give no inland support, while I can build an A Par and A Mar. While germany gets just two builds instead of three and has to get me out of Mun, thus hampering his westward attack.

However, If I believe Italy goes for Mar (why should he, actually? All the gains would go to EG), I´d go:

Bur - Mun
Mar H
MAO - Bre.

Why that? I need armies in the north. As many as possible. The alternative would have been to go Mar-Spa and cover Mar from Bur, hoping to bounce. But that would shift my power southwards. Anyway, if Italy does attack, it´s much more serious for me. I get only one build (A Par), wich is not enough to hold Bur and MAO.

As France, If I really believed EG betrays me, I´d try to make sure you get the impression I am desperate and willing to EGF, just to survive. Only this way can I guess you leave Mun open. Only if I get Mun AND convince Italy to call off, have I a chance to live on.
______

Ratio:

Cover Mun, you get only two builds, but it´s worth it. Go:

F ENG - MAO or Bre
F NTH C A Yor - Nor
F Hol - Bel
A Ruh - Mun
A Kie - Den

You´re guaranteed two builds for both E and G. France is totally screwed. Bur is a sure win in 02, wich opens the door to Gas (together with F ENG-MAO or Bre, Gas is a sure win)

F ENG - Bre or - MAO depends on whether you judge F. If you think it´s more likely he DOES believe in EFG, go to Bre. If you rather expect him to disbelieve you, move to MAO.

	01-11-2000 02:58									#4
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BTW, it doesn´t matter whether France in reality does mistrust you or believes you. All that matters is that it´s a fifty-fifty chance. And given the possible results....



.................. France trusts................... France mistrusts

Mun covered....... F screwed ............... F screwed

Mun not cov. ..... F screwed .............. G screwed

....
I´d cover Mun

[This message has been edited by Sahib (edited October 31, 2000).]

	01-11-2000 03:01									#5
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Thank you Sahib,
France is really trying to get a GFE alliance going to counter the AIR alliance which is still a legitimate concern of mine. RA are working on Turkey and I don't turkey will last much longer, which means I need to get units quick to attack R first. I told France I was going to MUN with my Ruhr unit and I think he believes me cause he wasn't suppose to go to Bur and now that England went to Eng(wasn't suppose to but I convinced him to when France told me he might be going to Bur. France thought he had an allie in England and now he realizes he doesn't. Now he is scrambling and I told France in order for England to stop an attack on France I offered England Bel, so I am moving back to Mun and England was going to pick up Bel in the second year in trade for his help. France is moving Mar > Spa to pick up a SC and Bur > Mar to bounce Italy out.
Mun is a calculated risk, agreed, but I think I need to risk it, in order to take on Russia, I have to kick him out of SWE in the spring so he can't get backup. And I have to do it in a way so he can't retreat to give me problems for the fall.

	01-11-2000 20:35									#6
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Don't trust England! He's gonna stab you! (It was *a joke*.)

Anyway, consider that everyone's probably seen you are from two teams organized by same entity. I think they are safe to assume that you two are allied in any case. Bear this in mind. And as a France, I'd be mistrustful of either of you from day one, or at least as far as mistrustfulness would get me.

	01-11-2000 21:16									#7
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I say kill france and nuetralize the RAI by being nice to them
Offer Italy french SCs offer Russia Swe etc. etc.

	02-11-2000 17:14									#8
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I suggest you leave Munich open and go for the 3 builds, if he takes Munich you get 2 builds and he is gone from Munich the next turn. That Italian army in Piedmont and his failure to move Marseilles to Spain means he can only get Spain and cover Marseilles by moving Burgundy there. Unfortunately you and England have an obvious connection (Apolyton), otherwise there is little reason for him to suspect you.

After this turn, the two of you will have armies in Denmark and Norway - Russia will be forced to build in StP, but that wont stop you guys from taking Sweden by the next build

	02-11-2000 18:30									#9
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Thanks Berzerker,
That is how I am playing it. The only problem comes after the builds, I need to put a fleet in Kie to move to the Bal at the same time we are exspelling R from Swe and I have to make sure his retreat can go no where to threaten an SC, but having a fleet in Kie and moving the "Famous" Ber > Pru and Mun > Sil for an attack on War means I need two turns to get the army from Bel to Mun before France catches on and tries to get to Mun from Bur if he is pissed. But that's a later problem, lets just get the three builds first.