16-02-2000 10:41									#1
	Don’t shoot Mister! I’m only a Caravan. Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

When at war, the AI sometimes kills your caravans. At other times they are left unharmed to go about their business. Whether the freight survives, or not, seems a matter of chance.

An AI can be “Enraged/Hostile/Uncooperative/Receptive” when at war. Do these degrees of war have any impact on the situation? Does the type of AI government matter? Or are we down to whether they are just civilised or aggressive? My camels await your advice.

If the boot is on the other foot – when the AI I am at war with sends a caravan into my patch, I generally let it through. If I think it is spying – another matter. It always dies if it loiters around my railway junctions trainspotting!

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Scouse Git (2)





[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited February 16, 2000).]

	16-02-2000 10:50									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

lol @ Scouser..... that was catchy.... i tend to let the ai caravans go wherever, unless they are mapping my territory..... which is often the case..... if it goes to a perimiter city or one where a troop has already been.... no harm done.... but otherwise...... its toast

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I am the kind of guy who likes to eat cereal in the morning while watching tv in my undershorts.
- Roger Clemens

	15-02-2000 23:06									#3
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I've never noticed any difference in the attitude of the AI when it comes to caraven survival. However I think the reason is (as you say) whether or not they are civiliZed or aggressive. Sometimes just having caravans (and no other units) in the Zulus territory is enough for them to sneak attack (when we have a peace treaty). OTOH, the Chinese and Babylonians will almost always let my caravans through, even if we are at war.

If I'm not at war with the AI I leave caravans alone but if we are at war, any unit of theirs is fair game.

	15-02-2000 23:18									#4
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I don't know man, when we're at war, it seems like they'll attack 'em way more often than not. So I stopped sending 'em a long time ago. Maybe I'll experiment with it a little and check out attitude.

And if we're at peace and they're uncooperative or less, it seems like there's a better than average chance that they'll attack. Particularly when I'm wandering all over their territory - as I tend to do.

And if they come into my territory when we're at war, they're toast. The Zulu people don't tolerate blackmarketeering.

	15-02-2000 23:22									#5
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Oh yeah, aside from the black marketeeering, it seems like the more you rough 'em up when you're at war, the better the chances of getting ceasefire/peace reparations.

	15-02-2000 23:30									#6
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Hm, isn't the AI supposed to be omniscent (spelling?)? It always knows where your cities are, doesn't it? No need to send caravans scouting.

In any case, I let them pass (unless they block my movement of units). The AI sends them to my high trade cities and I just can't say no to arrows!

Carolus

	15-02-2000 23:45									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Carolus that was my understanding as well.... why then does the caravan map your territory? sometimes it goes to the furthest city because of demand other times i am not so sure

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I am the kind of guy who likes to eat cereal in the morning while watching tv in my undershorts.
- Roger Clemens

	15-02-2000 23:48									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

I go along with BJ in that I've found that, when they're invaded your territotry, they will attack anything in the way. Even on the roads, Zulus and Germans will sneak attack caravans.

Since 90% of my unit-productions are caravans (up until wartime that is), I protect them like gold by keeping them out of harms way. If I got my modern units fighting non-modern AIs, then there is no need for caravans, thus not a factor fighting a total war.

	15-02-2000 23:53									#9
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Steve you actually let the ai into your territory ..... how could you ... i know what you mean about the Germans and the Zulus though...... i think the Germans just want to dominate the trade markets and the Zulus are always just nasty neighbors..... i often search them out first

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I am the kind of guy who likes to eat cereal in the morning while watching tv in my undershorts.
- Roger Clemens

	16-02-2000 00:46									#10
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I will ALWAYS kill enemy caravans if I see any - on the basis that a caravan arriving increases light bulb production and I don't want to take the chance that it might apply to AI civs as well.

	16-02-2000 02:48									#11
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War4: Only in the early/mid game. I always build the GWall with Leo - therefore I just let the horsies and popguns come at my pikes behind walls and watch them get splattered (I get excited just thinking about that ). But, I do have to get the dozens or so caravans out of the way. Nothing will p*** me off more than sneak attacks on my camels and that's what the Germans/Zulus are good at.

Unlike what was said in the duos thread, the GWall/Leo combo is actually a good offensive strategy - since you don't have to concern yourself with defense, you just work on accelerating your civ until you have a great military advantage to clobber everyone else as quickly as possible. That's one way of looking at it. I will, however, be trying variations on that strategy by agressively seeking and clobbering the other civs earlier (just like you, eh?)

BTW, when's the baby due?

	16-02-2000 03:07									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hummm, I think it was Smash that made mention of bribing friendly/hostile caravans. Ever since reading about the beaker bonus, I've been very reluctant to destroy an enemy trade unit. In my last game, 135 gd bribed a camel with beads still in demand--it's the only way to buy science!

As far as having my own trade units killed, happens way too often. In fact, when I send my caravans abroad, the AI can extort any science from me and maybe even gold in exchange for peace. Especially if is a nearby camel representing the super science city. The AI's seem fairly whimsical in their hostility toward my trade units. They'll even kill a camel from a city that demands the commodity! Most painful.

SG(2), I've never had a negative thought concerning Trainspotters, but when reading about the newish word, anorakish, at this excellent word site, I learned that trainspotters are not highly regarded in your parts. "Those choosing to wear that eminently practical cold-weather garment the anorak have suffered much opprobrium in Britain in the past couple of decades. It began with trainspotting, a specialised hobby involving much standing at the end of draughty station platforms noting down the numbers of passing engines. Those choosing this hobby were frequently ridiculed as being obsessive about trivia and as having poor social skills.... "
http://clever.net/quinion/words/tur...ase/tp-ano1.htm

I hope I don't earn your opprobrium for my many tangential references, but I'll confess to using a few rifleman on those pesky freight situated on MY great railroad.

AU

	16-02-2000 03:24									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I tend to always destroy/bribe AI caravans, just in case it gives them tech.
And I really can't stand the AI killing my caravans (especially in OCC). I love dropping in a caravan straight from a ship, try killing that you lousy French types (who are, of course, the worst offenders when it comes to sneak attacking).

Graag

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You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

	16-02-2000 03:43									#14
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AU - Been a trainspotter all my life! But that does NOT mean I have neglected to do the other things!
Love the link - and have just printed it out.
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SG (2)

	16-02-2000 05:30									#15
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That's right, there are no boats in Liverpool....

I also love that word site! "Investigating International English through a British Viewpoint" The webmaster also answers many questions from this side of the 'pond'. I don't think our English is terribly different, but I did see that civili[z]ed reference and if it is any consolation, I simply put the z's in your misspelling--american humo[u]r


SG[1] and SG(2), It's a bit contextually removed, but I was wondering why you can't get MPG over there. I ordered it through microprose and can't see why you wouldn't be able to do the same?! If you do get MPG, make sure you get the patch available at Apolyton or your democratic units will be subject to bribery! I found this out the hard way.

AU

	16-02-2000 10:58									#16
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Hey Steve..... baby is due in 5 days ... but its really due when the little fella wants to come out

Yes i like to put pressure on all ai as soon as possible....... while furthering my postion..... contain then clobber is my motto.... and like you stated before... hit them hard when your military has a strategic advantage, which is usually always

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I am the kind of guy who likes to eat cereal in the morning while watching tv in my undershorts.
- Roger Clemens

	16-02-2000 21:53									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

How can you tell when a caravan is mapping or trainspotting or whatever? I've never seen them do anything except go to a town or block my way now and then (which I figure they're doing on purpose).

	17-02-2000 10:54									#18
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MYOLDE if the caravan spends its whole time in your area and doesn't go to a city.... its is mapping unless the demand city is your last and furthest one away

	16-02-2000 23:09									#19
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And if the caravan starts tearing up roads, you KNOW he's up to no good...

	17-02-2000 03:51									#20
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Hehehe. I always just figured the dumb bastards were lost. Even when they are supposedly "mapping" they end up going back and forth over areas they've already mapped.

	17-02-2000 04:31									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

LOL at Bird and DAVEV....... who really knows with those caravans..... but a route is a route and i will take it except in my capital where i must establish all three routes.... unless no one demands my commodity