15-02-2000 19:35									#1
	And the Dynamic Duo is... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OK,

Wonders are always discussed. Best, worst, most underrated, most overrated, top 3, top 5, bottom 3, bottom 5, how to take advantage of them the most, which one you would bring with you on a deserted island and so on ...

Sadly I'm not creative enough to come up with something original, so the story continues...

Which two wonders in combination do you see as the most powerful?

Examples (feel free to add):

i) Lighthouse and Magellan's

My current favourite combo. If you get these two in worlds with lots of water (no kidding!), let the fun begin! How to defend against an armada of fastgoing vet triremes loaded with crusaders, diplos and maybe a defensive unit?

ii) Hanging Gardens and Great Wall

A sleazer's wet dream? Expand until you go mad claiming whatever land you can and then, just when you encounter a too passive opponent, BINGO! Instant city walls everywhere, consolidating your position.

iii) The Workshop and Sun Tzu's

Say no more!

iv)...

Carolus

	15-02-2000 20:10									#2
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Mike's chapel + Bach's cathedral - free happiness in all your cities (free money in Fundamentalism).

Great Wall + Sun Tzu's - the warmonger's combo; good defense and attack (plus, you know your opponent will have to build walls that you can then tear down).

Copernicus + Isaac Newton - the super science combo.

	15-02-2000 21:31									#3
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1. Mich and Bach (spreading happiness around)
2. GWall and Sun Tzu (pikes behind walls)
3. Copernicus and Isaac (advance every 3 turns)

Is there an echo in here?

	15-02-2000 21:43									#4
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But what are you guys going to do with all that happiness when my armada sets sail, or worse, reach your shores?

I have reconsidered the GW somewhat in MP. Not so much for protection as for keeping it from the hands of my potential, perfectionistic subjects. Besides, you know your opponent will have to build walls that you can then tear down!

Is there an echo, echo, echo in here, here, here?

Carolus

	15-02-2000 21:47									#5
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Yes, Copernicus' and Newton's is incredibly valuable. I also enjoy Bach's and Mike's. Those are the well known combos.
Some lesser know combos may be Adam Smith's and Hoover Dam. The combo, though they don't directly effect one another, provide great bonuses toward your production and economy.
Another neat one is U.N. w/ Manhattan. That'll allow for the best executed nuclear exchange. You can get all of the info you need regarding the enemy's SDI or Nuclear capability, as well as letting you nuke them into oblivion and quickly make amends. BTW- has anyone experienced the AI breaking a cease-fire with a Nuke? I'm not sure, but I don't think it has happend to me.......yet.
The one I try to get in my current games is Magellan's and King Ricky's. I like to have a sizeable Navy, and I think it is key to ultimately preventing enemy invasions into your territory. I will build this combo in a high production costal city to build my fleet. The key is in the timing. Since Magellan's doesn't expire, the benefits must be gained from King Ricky before industrialization. Therefore, You get to produce many a Galleon and Frigate and get to rule the seas and start your Imperialistic era. Much like the Spanish, Dutch, English, French and Portugese ect, you can immediatly begin the exploition of the foriegn "savages". If you can establish early rule over the seas, the AI will not challenge this domain and you will be in a most advantageous position. This combe is short lived, but it can be utalized at a most crucial time in the game.

	16-02-2000 10:20									#6
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How about the SoL and the GL. Allows early fundy with stop gap tech, or SunTzu instead of the GL and massive vet fanatic storming around wrecking havoc.

	16-02-2000 10:41									#7
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well i think this is a great combo..... Leos with Adam Smith..... leos for the obvious upgrades and Adam Smith for the improvements that come free of charge...... once these two are in place....Science is coming at one or two per turn. I go from illiterate Mongol Savages to the most enlightened empire in the world

	15-02-2000 23:55									#8
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Leo's and War Academy is a good military combo if you work your research right.I don't find the WALL any use at all in OFFENSIVE wars.Leo's and The Wall for defense maybe.Metallurgy comes too fast in 2x MP games

I also like The Gardens and The Lighthouse.This combo, and its expansion city.

Who wouldn't want Mich's and JSB.Or Cope's and Sir Isaac's?But in MP,these combos invariably mean you will face an alliance in a "slow you down" war.

Under Communism,The Pyramids and any happy wonder allow good growth thru food caravans

Against strong alliances-The Library and The Wall can be most helpful

SOL and War Academy is another good military combo.Research in Demo and build in Fundy.I wouldn't recommend too much government switching in MP games though

Isolated-Marco Polo's and The Library

	16-02-2000 00:03									#9
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MP-

Wall and Sun Tzu's, you ar untouchable 'till Mettalurgy, and can wage war with much more confidence.

Marco and GL for 5-7 player games

SP-

King Richard's and Shake's, for that Republic/Democracy war

Graag


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You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

	16-02-2000 19:04									#10
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CR - Agreed! Magellan's with the Lighthouse - great for the waterworlds.

I like the SoL with MC. Neither of them expire - a big bonus. The SoL allows any government, whilst MC helps you sustain happiness in Republic or Democracy.
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SG (2)

	17-02-2000 03:41									#11
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am i the only one who views Adam Smith as such a great wonder...... it paired with any happy wonder is outstanding

	17-02-2000 03:49									#12
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SOL and Pyramids. Go fundi and your cities can still growing fast. Works perfect in 2x production.

	17-02-2000 04:31									#13
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No War4ever, I also think of AS as a great wonder - it's one of my must haves. It's just that I don't think of it as having to be paired. With it I'm going to knock a few turns off my rate of advances AND increase my treasury regardless.

	17-02-2000 04:42									#14
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BlackJack.... thats the beauty..... it allows for so many free city improvemnts not just scince and gold...... in every city now you can have some of the cities fav enhancements..... especially valuable to a civ with fifty cities and such..... saves so much coin and paired with leos.... can give a huge advantage as all you do is build temple market library, coastal fort, as your units are upgraded by leos.... i think this is an amazing combo myself. I prefer it to almost any other wonder..... ADAM is a must have and your right , it is damm good on its own

	18-02-2000 00:34									#15
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I too think AS is a must have. Using AS with SOL gives you a chance to do just about anything possible. Usually, if I have these two WOWs, winning is a breeze under any or all types of government.

	18-02-2000 02:08									#16
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1. Copernicus' + Isaac's for the science lover in me. It's also a multiplicative effect, so they are a true dynamic duo.

2. Shakes + Adam Smith's in Democracy. I love these together, Adam Smith's give you lots of extra cash to rush buy units, or to bribe AI units/cities. By using the majority of the shield output in the Shake's city as support for units you have reassigned to the Shakes' city, you can wage a nice war in Democracy without unhappiness. Once you discover Industrialization, you can rush buy your factories and really go to town! Be careful not to assign too many units to the Shakes' city or a few AI units sitting on a couple of mines can force the disbanding a lot of your units!

Bach's and Mike's aren't really a combo to me because they are only additive in effect and they're both great by themselves.

The best part about these Wonders is they don't expire! With the exception of the Colossus, I must be very isolated on the map to build any of the wonders that expire, and then it's usually just Marco Polo's to keep an eye on the natives (and get them to wage war against each other).

	18-02-2000 04:53									#17
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I like michelangelo's and great wall.
This combination lets you expand like crazy. Your first citizens are happy enough, and the first defender makes you secure enough to go build another city.

	18-02-2000 05:18									#18
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Until someone pointed out the concept of the SSCity, I use to play for the combo of much food with happy people to make a big empire, thus I liked Pyramids with MC. I guess Pyramids and HG would be a good combo too if you're fortunate enough to build both early year wonders.

AU

	18-02-2000 16:11									#19
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My pair were grabbed by the first post:
Hanging Gardens + Great Wall - I can generally win with just the HG, but (up to meeting spindle world -- URL edited in: http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/H...tml?date=17:43) I have never lost when I get both.
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited February 18, 2000).]