22-02-2000 01:41									#1
	Sabotaging SDI Defenses Tired of ads?

My last few games have turned into nuclear bloodbaths and I have needed to take out some SDI Defense systems in order to shower death upon the land of my enemies. In the first such recent game, I sent a spy into an enemy city to investigate the existence of an SDI. After finding one, I ordered my spy to sabotage this incredible piece of technology, however it was reported back to me that the city's SDI was protected by "barbed wire" and other means of shielding which prevented any destruction from my spy.

Is anyone familiar with this message or know of a thread where this has been touched on? What are the circumstances in which this message is displayed? Is it controlled by playing level, units fortified within the city, civ wealth, etc.? What can be done to prevent this message?

I have to admit after seeing this message for about 3 cities, I laughed my can off after planting a nuke in the first city, parachuting in, and selling the SDI. Then the real plan…after having the city captured by my enemy again I repeated the nuke, this time selling the city walls, another recapture, and endless missiles and nukes until a size 1, unprotected city disappears as my troops stomp down on the remains. Size 23 city one day, no city at all the next. Still, I wondered why I received the "unable to sabotage" message. Anyone know?

	22-02-2000 02:28									#2
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I believe SDI defenses cannot be sabotaged though I'm not quite sure. Have you ever done this succesfully? Or seen this box when attacking any other improvement? I'll have to check when I get more time.

	22-02-2000 02:31									#3
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I thought I remember doing that. But that was back when I played on Warlord in the WW79 scenario. But I'm not sure.

	22-02-2000 03:09									#4
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Unless the option is disabled in a scenario, you can't sabotage a SDI.

RAH

I also laughed my butt off when I saw that message for the first time.

	22-02-2000 03:56									#5
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SDI's... no problem. Use howies to destroy it

	22-02-2000 04:35									#6
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Use "sabotage building at random", that'll get it.

	22-02-2000 04:44									#7
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Really?????
I didn't know that. But it must take a few spies to get that done

	22-02-2000 05:10									#8
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i was under the impression that the sdi was untouchable too.... thats why the spy can plant the nuke in the first place however i am known to be wrong from time to time

	22-02-2000 07:45									#9
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Well...I actually took some initiative to answer my question this time. It looks as if the SDI is indeed untouchable, even when a spy is asked to randomly choose an improvement. I played a few cheat mode tests at King & Emp. and when there was an improvement being built (here, a temple) , even one with no shields in the production box, the spy always randomly chose the temple.

I asked because I thought for sure that I had at one time destroyed an SDI. I'll keep fooling with this and see if I can come up with something. It sounds as if it is a lost cause though.

	23-02-2000 10:59									#10
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In the foggy netherquadrants of my mind I remember having this 'barbed wire-no dice' box come up. I can't remember exactly what I did. But my advice is to go with either Ming's howieblast idea, or War4ever's sneaky atomic suicide manuver.
Ming's idea begets the question...in what order are the city improvements destroyed? Most expensive 1st? I would assume an SDI has at least a 3 or 4 gold maintanence cost so it might split pretty quickly.

	23-02-2000 00:22									#11
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Actually just logged the order in which diplomats destroyed industry in a city on a plains. I was going after the city walls to enable my troops of elephants to storm the defenders. Here is the list in the city improvements box followed by the order in which the diplomatic corps actually destroyed them.
Palace__________not destroyed
Barracks________3rd
Temple__________4th
Market Place____5th
CityWalls_______6th
Harbor__________1st
Colossus________not destroyed
MarcoPoloEmb.___not destroyed
CatapultProd.___2nd and 7th
Had 7 diplomats to send in, and as that was the last city to take to end the game, I used the 7th one just to see what would happen, if it would destroy the palace or what. So, even though the catapult production had been sabotaged and there were no shields in the box, the diplomat went ahead and sabotaged the non production of the catapult. It might have been interesting to see what would have transpired if another few diplomats had been handy to send in. Does anyone know. Can you destroy a Palace by sabotage? My guess is no. Hope this helps or is at least interesting.

	23-02-2000 01:49									#12
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Poppa,

I actually meant the order of destruction as a result of howie blasts. Though the order may be the same...
[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited February 22, 2000).]

	23-02-2000 02:04									#13
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poppawoppa, unfortunately if you had reloaded the game and tried it again, you would have gotten different results. (except for you inability to destroy the palace or wonders.)

I did some quantitative tests on this a while back but couldn't find the results. In general, a lot of barracks and temples destroyed early. City walls rarely fell first.

RAH
Prefers Howies

	23-02-2000 05:38									#14
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The system is weighted against city walls falling. Palaces and Wonders are never destroyed. Other buildings, including SDI's can be destroyed, although I have always tried to get there with conventional weapons first!

	23-02-2000 05:54									#15
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do you lose improve ment say.... every two population points lost or is it random..... and my spies dont commit suicide... their acts are so atrotious our own govt kills them after they do the job so there is no possible "deep throat" scenario

	23-02-2000 07:10									#16
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War4,
Those spies must run pretty fast to escape the nuclear explosion they are 'suspected' of causing!

	23-02-2000 07:30									#17
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FMK do you have icq? and my snipers wait for them just outside the city walls and bang... its all over

	23-02-2000 07:36									#18
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I tried this in cheat mode. Attack a AI city with 30 spies. Destroyed ever improvement except the SDI. With only the SDI remaining the spy destroyes the production box, even if it is already empty.

So, I'd say you CAN NOT destroy the SDI improvment with spies.

	23-02-2000 07:50									#19
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War4,
Well I'm on aol, as far as I know I have no icq. I'm not even sure what that is. I'm not a pc wiz. It is basically a big grey box that plays a better Civ than my smaller grey box(playstation). It's wierd though, when I go to the zone...I don't have a latency bar. I guess that means I have no ICQand can't host games? I may sound like i don't know what I'm doin', but once I figure out this internet buisness, I'm ggod to go with Civ.
Throw an e-mail my way. It's on my profile.

	23-02-2000 08:01									#20
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hmmm.... out of more than 100 tests, I did destroy an SDI with a spy unit. ?? I can't figure out how to repeat it. It does not seem to matter what size the city is, techs the target civ has, units present or not... strange.

I setup a city size 1, gave it a SDI. Placed another CIV spy next to it and tried. 'SDI complex destroyed'. I was going to take a screen shot but figured it was easy to repeat again. I'm still playing with it.

	23-02-2000 09:21									#21
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FMK..... i sent you an email..... i know little of pc as well....and you must be a redsox fan

	23-02-2000 19:04									#22
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MWHC: So you were able to destroy an SDI complex? Man...I thought I was going crazy there for a while. Probably still am. Are you testing on Deity or multiple levels? Have you tested with vet spy units? I'm thinking vet status may have something to do with it, even though I've had vet spies fail.

	23-02-2000 23:16									#23
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I couldn't get it to happen after cheating up, I don't know how many dips,vet dips,spys and vet spys.The way you get around SDI is to plant a nuclear device with a spy..Definetely get a screenshot if you ever get lucky enough to do it again



[This message has been edited by Smash (edited June 01, 2000).]

	24-02-2000 09:51									#24
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War4,
I'll get me one of those right now. Don't laugh at my dumb internet questions...I'll catch on. Pedro Martinez and Nomar Garciaparra ar the 2 best players in the game right now. I'm not a huge sports fan, but baseball is the one I like the most, played it when I was young..real young.
I'm at college so I can't hit MP during late nite hrs. on weekdays. We'll hit it soon though.I'm F_M_Klesh there.

	24-02-2000 10:03									#25
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FMK..... cool....... i love the redsox.... and pedro is the best pitcher in baseball bar none and nomar is arguably the best shortstop as well Go sox go !! my icq is 30200920 when you get it......

	24-02-2000 15:23									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

It would be nice if somebody out there could alter the .dll file or the .bat file or whatever file it was that makes SDIs unspyblowable. (Or at least, very difficult to spyblow.)

I'm arsing around with a scenario and the fact that I have no nukes makes SDIs only marginally useful. However, there are other improvements that I'd love to be able to make unspyblowable... if only FW modpak included this as a binary 0-1 switch per improvement...

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"In all creation, there can be no task more onerous or tedious than that of playing God." - Stephen Fry, 'The Liar'.